man holding wife still during epidural dies!

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

So,I guess if the nurse was the one in there holding the patient they wouldn't not have been participating in the procedure either??

No they wouldn't. I would never chart that I participated in the insertion of the epidural when I only hugged a woman.

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Oh my gosh thank you, thank you, thank you . . . . .I was beginning to feel all alone. :kiss :kiss

steph

Well you're not alone. :) Seriously, I sometimes wonder how we got to the point in this society where money has to become involved in every tragedy we experience and personal responsibility is a foreign concept. It's sick.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

I just think that hugging or comforting a patient is much different that holding a patient steady. One involves a personal interaction and the other is merely mechanical.

I would chart the comforting of a patient as having been provided to address the patient's psychological needs as this is one of the areas our hospital looks at. However, the holding steady that is needed for an epidural....that is not comforting as it sometimes involves stength to keep the patient from accidentally harming themselves.

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i wonder what happen first the bleed [cerabral] or the fall...the poor man may have chosen that moment to have a stroke..

falling from the distance of your head to floor rarely proves so traumatic as to cause a fatal injury

in pedi all children are held secure during injections usually by a parent...what is covered here???

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Well you're not alone. :) Seriously, I sometimes wonder how we got to the point in this society where money has to become involved in every tragedy we experience and personal responsibility is a foreign concept. It's sick.
I think the whole situation is sad. Sure, it's her right to sue, but it won't undo the tragic accident that took her loved one.

Hmmph, I am betting some slick attorney smelled money in this for him/herself, and was of "some encouragement" to this family to sue. It's like a lotto for them. :angryfire

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
in pedi all children are held secure during injections usually by a parent...what is covered here???
I imagine, NOT our butts. Just another thing to worry about.
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Specializes in Case Mgmt; Mat/Child, Critical Care.
I just think that hugging or comforting a patient is much different that holding a patient steady. One involves a personal interaction and the other is merely mechanical.

I would chart the comforting of a patient as having been provided to address the patient's psychological needs as this is one of the areas our hospital looks at. However, the holding steady that is needed for an epidural....that is not comforting as it sometimes involves stength to keep the patient from accidentally harming themselves.

Actually, in all reality here, an epidural is an elective procedure chosen by the mom to help ease the discomfort of labor. It is the mom's responsibility to hold still, neither myself as the RN or the support person is going to make that happen or is required to make that happen. I work in a military hospital where many of our patients do not have dad there w/them, or even a support person. If the epidural is done sitting upright, the pt is set-up w/a bedisde table and pillow and the RN is there to help steady the pt. I always tell my patients that they have to hold still....if they can't, anesthesia will not proceed. Another option, if the pt can not/will not hold still is to do the epidural in a sidelying position. So many times it is difficult to get people out of the room. I always allow 1 person to stay. And they cannot be in the back where anesthesia is working....sterile field. I am not trying to sound harsh...I have 4 children and only had 1 epidural!

No, standing in front of the laboring woman and "hugging" her or placing your hands on her shoulders is not "asssisting w/a medical procedure". :rolleyes: I highly doubt even, that anesthesia "asked the father to assist". That is really ludicrous. He was probably told to go stand in front of his wife if he wanted to stay in the room.

We truly are in a sue happy society...it is tragic that this event was marred by this freak accident. People just have to realize that tragedy occurs. :o

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Actually, in all reality here, an epidural is an elective procedure chosen by the mom to help ease the discomfort of labor. It is the mom's responsibility to hold still, neither myself as the RN or the support person is going to make that happen or is required to make that happen. I work in a military hospital where many of our patients do not have dad there w/them, or even a support person. If the epidural is done sitting upright, the pt is set-up w/a bedisde table and pillow and the RN is there to help steady the pt. I always tell my patients that they have to hold still....if they can't, anesthesia will not proceed. Another option, if the pt can not/will not hold still is to do the epidural in a sidelying position. So many times it is difficult to get people out of the room. I always allow 1 person to stay. And they cannot be in the back where anesthesia is working....sterile field. I am not trying to sound harsh...I have 4 children and only had 1 epidural!

No, standing in front of the laboring woman and "hugging" her or placing your hands on her shoulders is not "asssisting w/a medical procedure". :rolleyes: I highly doubt even, that anesthesia "asked the father to assist". That is really ludicrous. He was probably told to go stand in front of his wife if he wanted to stay in the room.

We truly are in a sue happy society...it is tragic that this event was marred by this freak accident. People just have to realize that tragedy occurs. :o

what if a woman somehow becomes unable to "hold still"? That is what the support person is for, right? Sometimes, huge drops in blood pressure occur, or a mom reacts somehow to being stuck, she is in horrible pain, trying to bear through contractions while being stuck? How responsible can she be at all times during such a procedure? I think that is taking her "responsibility" a bit far. It is OUR responsiblity overall as healthcare professionals, to ensure her safety during a risky procedure (and yes it is still considered high risk) like regional anesthesia placement. Now the significant other? I think that person needs to be able to take care of him or herself, or just leave the room while it's going on. That is only my opinion, I know.

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i wonder what happen first the bleed [cerabral] or the fall...the poor man may have chosen that moment to have a stroke..

falling from the distance of your head to floor rarely proves so traumatic as to cause a fatal injury

in pedi all children are held secure during injections usually by a parent...what is covered here???

Both very good points, especially the last one.

So, if the mom who is holding the child for an immunization faints when she sees the needle . . . . is the clinic liable?

steph

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At our hospital, the only person even ALLOWED in the room is an RN. And she's the one holding the pt. All others must go out to the waiting area until anesthesia is done. PERIOD.

Some people may not think that they'll pass out when they see a medical procedure, but until they actually see it, especially when a needle is inserted into a back, there's really no telling what someone might do.

I believe that the hospital is liable in this case. They should have had an RN or other trained person hold the pt, not the husband.

This is just my opinion without knowing the particulars of this case.

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It's not just "a hug". You are making sure the pts. spine is in proper alignment for needle placement and that a large woman in active labor does not move while the epidural is being placed.Be it elective or not, it is akin to having a lumbar puncture. Do we have husbands, wives, visitors, hold out pts for those? No where I've ever been.

Personally, everyone had to leave the room when I got my epidurals.My husband had a chair placed strategically behind him during delivery for his hx of being a fainter. :p

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