man holding wife still during epidural dies!

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Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

I agree this was an unfortunate accident, and am sorry for the family's loss. I just don't understand why this Dad just didn't speak up and say, I feel faint. :o

I had a Dad just the other day that I had to sit down because he felt faint. We have Dads support Mom by standing in front and holding hands all the time. They are not helping with positioning. The CRNA positions the patient. The Dad is just there for emotional support.

I agree that it will come down to the wording of the lawsuit. Did Dad just offer support, or was he actually "assisting" in a medical procedure? :uhoh21:

I vote for "support".

steph

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

man faints, dies after seeing epidural - yahoo! news

"in june 2004, passalaqua's husband, steven passalaqua, was asked by kaiser staff to hold and steady his wife while an employee inserted an epidural needle into her back, court papers said.

the sight of the needle caused steven passalaqua, 33, to faint and he fell backward, striking his head on an aluminum cap molding at the base of the wall...

because passalaqua was solicited by kaiser to assist in the epidural, the lawsuit said, the hospital "owed him a duty to exercise reasonable care to prevent foreseeable injuries resulting from his participation."...

guess all the ob staff will need to screen dad's for "sqeamishness" re needles and sight of blood as part of delivery care plan.

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I guess we're going to have to start forbidding fathers from helping mom hold her legs up too. I mean, he could hurt himself! Maybe we shouldn't let them pick up their babies until they are discharged in case they drop them too.....

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I guess we're going to have to start forbidding fathers from helping mom hold her legs up too. I mean, he could hurt himself! Maybe we shouldn't let them pick up their babies until they are discharged in case they drop them too.....

The fact that this could be such a hot topic among OB nurses is one of the reasons I am getting discouraged with OB nursing. It DOES seem to me that in many ways we are returning to the dark ages and so much of that is related to the threat of litigation.

I would hate to see Dad's kicked out of the birthing room. I would hate to see Mom's have to lose the support they have had during the many hours of labor leading up to their epidural just because we are afraid that support person might faint.

What is the problem? He might faint. So respond to that by ensuring that he understands that that can happen and has happened. Then make sure that he has a large chair nearby (I pull the recliner up to his side in a way that allows me room to reach Mom if I need to). Then I firmly instruct him to call my name loudly if he needs to sit and I will come right away and take over with Mom. Why don't I do it myself? Because of computer charting. I can't chart in a timely fashion if I am holding Mom, nor can I help the anesthetist if he/she needs it. Of course, if Dad opts to leave the room I will hold Mom, people are more important than charts.

About 2 weeks ago I was helping with an epidural, Dad was holding Mom and he called my name, I looked up and saw how white his face was. I hurried to his side, helped him to sit in the chair and he promptly fainted dead away. I held the Mom while shaking his knee and calling his name to bring him around. I had an ammonia inhaler taped to my badge but he came around pretty easily so I didn't use it. He was safe in the chair and all was fine.

It seems to me that we are quick to say "the nurse should be doing it" when we are already responsible for EVERYTHING else pretty much! We are also quick to say, "kick the family out". It isn't our birth.....it is theirs.

It isn't that hard to find solutions that don't include either of these undesirable options I don't think. Nurses have proven themselves to be smart and creative people, let's show it!

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
I guess we're going to have to start forbidding fathers from helping mom hold her legs up too. I mean, he could hurt himself! Maybe we shouldn't let them pick up their babies until they are discharged in case they drop them too.....

It wouldn't surprise me a bit. It's sad that things like that are suggested, but if people weren't so sue-happy, it wouldn't even be thought of.

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I'll quit nursing before I do any of that. I was considering going back to L&D, but here in the US it just doesn't seem promising sometimes.

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I agree with SMK1. We ask parents to assist with procedures on children all the time. And L&D is frequently a place where a husband, family, or friend are at the bedside. I don't think the actually "holding" had anything to do with overall outcome. It was a freak accident. I know I would want my husband at my side during any kind of procedure. It is a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to her, but I don't think the CRNA is at fault, unless she/he forced the husband to stay when he didn't want to.

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Specializes in Critical care.

Yikes, this is a bad case for l&d, being a nurse myself and having helped with my wifes epidural I would never have thought of this happening. I have seen people faint watching procedures but then to die. I feel for the widowed woman with two young children but when will our judicial system put their foot down and say enough is enough. We are all talking about this because we can see the plaintiff winning, and people losing their jobs over an accident (act of god), something that could neither have been predicted, or stopped. We need to get a handle on the system that has to allways have someone to blame, at times it just has to be said that bad things happen to good people and no one is to blame!:crying2:

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where is it stated in any of these articles that a crna was the person putting in the epidural? just wondering because many posters keep saying "the crna should have" in the article it doesn't even state that the anesthesia provider asked the father to steady his wife, maybe the L&D nurse asked him too. people are making a lot of assumptions from this article. just trying to give the people in the room the benefit of the doubt here. as for the original posters concern, i think this is a ridiculous lawsuit myself.

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Specializes in OB, lactation.
I guess we're going to have to start forbidding fathers from helping mom hold her legs up too. I mean, he could hurt himself! Maybe we shouldn't let them pick up their babies until they are discharged in case they drop them too.....

I agree. There's no cause for a lawsuit and I hope the judge says so.

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Most guys are afraid to admit they feel quizzy. I always explain that people become faint during an epidural placement and most times the guys insist "oh no I'll be fine". The ones that insist the strongest, tend to be the most likely to take a dive. Mabey it's becuse I'm a guy, mabey they would be more likely to admit that they are faint to a women. However when I notice them getting pale and tell them to sit down they all say "I'm fine". More offten then not I have to push them back into the chair just before they drop because they will insist that they are fine until they start to go out.

I think that we fool ourselves into beliveing it's okay to let them help with an epidural. I know it's very common however this is the only procedure we solicicite the help of a family member for and it is actually nessasary to the procedure to have someone hold mom up. That leagaly equates to dircting them to assist in a medical procedure.

Would you allow the FOC to help you transfer the patient to a stretcher? Would you ask them to apply superpubic pressure? No becuse if they hurt the patient or themselves it would be a liability to you and the hospital. The only reason we see supporting for an epidural differntly is becuase it is so commonly done. You have to look at it the way a jury would and Mr. Joe public is going to see it as assisting with a medical procedure.

Now I don't belive that the hospital or CRNA are ethicaly or moraly wrong here I do, however belive that leagaly they are going to be found liable.

From now on all my Dads are going to be sitting in a chair holding the pateints hand.

I will eat my hat (you know the big pointy nurses hat I wear) if this case is not setteled for big $$ or won by the family.

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While I feel empathetic toward this woman's loss, I hope she doesn't get paid jack. Take away all the legal mumbo jumbo and the husband was simply holding his wife still. In nursing school we were always taught to include dad in the whole birthing process if possible. This is just a sad situation.

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