man holding wife still during epidural dies!

jkaee · Jul 8, 2005

I thought the whole point of a lawsuit (I know this is a crazy idea, folks, but bear with me) is that there had to be gross negligence or a blatant omission of care that results in a death or disability. Unfortunately, strange accidents happen sometimes. Mistakes or misjudgements are made. That does NOT mean one should sue, IMHO.

While this case is a tragedy, I'm sure no one could forsee something like this happening to the dad. Now, if the dad said, "Hey, look doc, I get really queesy watching medical procedures, can I step out during this?", and no other attempts were made by the personnel to get someone else in there to assist during the placement of the epidural, then MAYBE there would be a case. (Once again, I say maybe, because the dad needs to take responsibility for himself and INSIST on help if needed). In this case it seems that no one, (the husband, wife or doc) had an inkling of his tendency to faint during procedure, or if they did, no one mentioned it beforehand. How in the world is the hospital responsible for that?

Well, gotta cut this short....I'm needed elsewhere....more on my dissertation later

:uhoh3: :chuckle

MarySunshine · Jul 8, 2005

So, now we shouldn't be allowed to encourage the dad to help with "Come, hold your wife's hand," "Stand here and rub her back if you want, that will help her relax," etc. Maybe we'll just have dad sign a waiver, too.

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 8, 2005

Our dads "help" too by holding the table with the pillow on it while mom leans over it. I am always right next to the dad, watching both him and his significant other during the procedure. I keep an close eye particularly on dad, cause I have seen quite a few go white and/or feel faint. I warn them prior to the procedure, if they are at all queasy or tend to faint, all I can do is help them to the floor safely, step over them and hold their wife/ significant other for them. I will remind them my patient is the wife or significant other NOT THEM.

Also, I Have asked quite a few men to go sit down (there is always a chair right behind them) or leave the room when I saw them "going" bad. I have not had one faint on me out-and-out (yet), because I am watching so closely. If they break a sweat or change color, they will be told to sit down, no argument.

But I will say, I am NOT going to depend on any family member to do this task IN MY STEAD, only if they desire to participate and feel up to it. I am ALWAYS an arm's length away from the couple throughout the entire procedure, ready to jump in at a second's notice if something should go wrong. I agree with those who say this is not the family member's "job" to do this---I only allow it as a courtesy to those wanting so badly to participate. But I imagine there is even liability in that----that is why I am right there to help if something does happen. I can't imagine I can ever escape liability in any decision I do make......(I digress)

Does this post make sense? rofl, I am only on my 1st cuppa joe and it is only 7 here in Seattle.

Bottom line: I cannot and will not ask a family member to do what legally I am responsible for doing myself. If they participate, it's only with my close observation and oversight so things do not go wrong. You never know who will faint. Some very big, he-man types have "lost it" for me in the past----heading straight for a chair or the emesis basin!

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Jul 8, 2005

First off, I think that the person placing the epidural was out of line by asking a non-medical person to assist in a medical procedure. In this hospital, the only people who can help with procedures have to be an employee of the facility. I don't think that comforting a patient or holding their hand constitues assisting. After all, cruel as it sounds, the patient will survive if their hand isn't held, but it's imperative they be postioned correctly for the placement of an epidural.

Also, a lot of people aren't aware that if asked they can decline. They feel the professionals know what's best for the patient. I know that in our PICU, there is never a choice of the parent's assisting in even an IV start, they can comfort the little one, but not participate. For the most part, the parent's aren't even in the room as we want them to remain "safe" people and therefore if they aren't present the patient doesn't associate them with the pain.

lucky4timesover · Jul 8, 2005

I think that it is sad that a lawsuit has been filed. I don't think the Dad should have been asked to hold the mother. I also don't think that the hospital and the CRNA should have to pay either. I just think it is an extremely sad occurence all around. I know this is a little off topic, but a couple of other people already mentioned it. The woman who sued McDonalds for the hot coffee was not in my opinion involved in a frivolous suit. She was an 80 year old lady who recieved third degree burns from the spill. She asked McDonalds to only pay for her hospital bills (she had numerous skin grafts to repair the damage) and they said they would pay NOTHING. In court, papers from the McDonalds company were presented about their coffee stating that it had to be brewed so hot (about 10 degrees hotter than any competitior or coffee pot coffee if I am correct) because the taste was so bad. They actually had Braun (I think) or one of the other coffee maker manufacturers to specially build them a coffee maker that brewed the coffee at that temperature because it was the only way that it could not be tasted. Instead of buying decent coffee or paying for her medical bills they decided to let it go to court. Call me crazy, but they got what they asked for. OK, sorry for hijacking the thread I am off my rant now. I really do feel for the woman who lost her husband. She is grief stricken and now a lawyer gets to make a nice 30% profit from her grief.

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 8, 2005

Here, from Reuters, is the news story itself:

Man faints, dies after seeing epidural

Thu Jul 7, 2005 7:02 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California woman is suing a hospital for wrongful death because her husband fainted and suffered a fatal injury after helping delivery room staff give her a pain-killing injection.

rest of the article:

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=&storyID=2005-07-07T230220Z_01_N07216325_RTRIDST_0_USREPORT-LIFE-EPIDURAL-DC.XML

TypicalFish · Jul 8, 2005

When I worked in L&D, and even now, my hosp would often have support person hold wife while inserting epidural; I always thought it was risky at best.

Once, we had a deaf couple in the ob OR for a scheduled c/s, and they had dh hold wife while inserting epidural. He got dizzy and turned, stumbling around. Since he was deaf, we could not get his attention, and interpreter was with wife. He came my way, with me franctically trying to stop him, but he stumbled over and, trying to steady himself, touched everything sterile in my area-all the drapes, instruments, everything (I was a CST then), he knocked over my mayo stand and as I grabbed him from falling he almost took me down as well-all of this took only a few chaotic seconds-and since the needle was in pt's back, we couldn't really do a whole lot. We ended up having to break down and re-set up everything. Dad was revived with juice, and spent the c/s behind the screen, sitting in a chair-and we brought in an extra circulator just in case.

fergus51 · Jul 8, 2005

It's a freak accident and I think this woman should be ashamed of herself for contributing to staff basing their care on liability fears. Now what? A lot of fathers faint at deliveries at various points. Should they all be barred so that I don't get sued?

The husband was not participating in a medical procedure, he was holding his wife. Sometimes terrible things happen and it isn't the doctor's fault. Some people just need to grow up and realize that a tragedy doesn't always mean a payout.

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Jul 8, 2005

The husband was not participating in a medical procedure, he was holding his wife. Sometimes terrible things happen and it isn't the doctor's fault. Some people just need to grow up and realize that a tragedy doesn't always mean a payout.

So,I guess if the nurse was the one in there holding the patient they wouldn't not have been participating in the procedure either??

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2005

It's a freak accident and I think this woman should be ashamed of herself for contributing to staff basing their care on liability fears. Now what? A lot of fathers faint at deliveries at various points. Should they all be barred so that I don't get sued?
The husband was not participating in a medical procedure, he was holding his wife. Sometimes terrible things happen and it isn't the doctor's fault. Some people just need to grow up and realize that a tragedy doesn't always mean a payout.

Oh my gosh thank you, thank you, thank you . . . . .I was beginning to feel all alone. :kiss :kiss

steph

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2005

So,I guess if the nurse was the one in there holding the patient they wouldn't not have been participating in the procedure either??

No, I don't think so . . . I would be there as a support person.

I'm of more use to our CRNA to be free during the procedure.

I've never had a family member faint and I don't believe in jinx's so I'm not worried about saying that I've never had a family member faint.

I also have family members help me with McRoberts . . . . I'm the only nurse in the room.

steph

babyktchr, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2005

Although I don't think it is the job of the support person to participate in epidural placements, it does happen. Some moms are just more comfortable with their hubby's holding them than a total stranger. But I see no difference if the guy had fallen when the delivery occurred, or any other incident that may have caused him to faint. Is it the responsibility of the hospital because he fainted?? We have patients AND support people sign a form that pretty much says we are not responsible if you fall down and hurt yourself during the labor and delivery experience. Don't know if it holds up...seems no consent really does anymore, but at least they know it is a possibility and you are responsible for yourself. I do try to keep my eye on those close to the action, and have a chair available if needed. I just don't need another person to care for in the labor room, if you know what I mean. We also kick all support people out during epidural procedures.

I don't think it was the hospital's fault that he fainted. He could've done that at any given time. Does the mother deserve monetary restitution? I really don't know. It is a shame it happend, regardless.