man holding wife still during epidural dies!

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Jul 8, 2005

What if he was watching the delivery and fainted? He was there to support his wife, and holding her legs, or her hand, or whatever it was predictable that he would be seeing medical procedures, and he chose to be there.

Nurse Ratched, RN · Jul 8, 2005

What if he was watching the delivery and fainted? He was there to support his wife, and holding her legs, or her hand, or whatever it was predictable that he would be seeing medical procedures, and he chose to be there.

I suspect they still would sue, but be less likely to win. Once the lawyers are done with it, I'm sure this will lead to all expectant daddys having to wear padded helmets.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Jul 8, 2005

I don't think it's a frivolous suit. A professional (RN) should have been holding, not dad. The nurse assigned to the mother should not have permitted dad to "help", and the anesthesia provider shouldn't have asked. Some people faint when seeing medical proceedures.
JMO

I agree with this post. A professional should have been there available for such procedure.

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Jul 8, 2005

I bet the family will win this one. The important point here is that he was directed to help by the care provider. Even though it could be seen as just allowing him to comfort the patient. To him and the patient he was "helping" with the procedure. I be the courts will see it that way too.
I'm not saying I agree with this point of veiw but I can definatly see why some would see it that way.

Gotta agree with that, too. He was ASKED to assist by staff....

amber1142 · Jul 8, 2005

Gotta agree with that, too. He was ASKED to assist by staff....

But what is the evidence that his *assistance* led to his passing out? (In the future will holding someone's hand, or holding someone's legs be considered assistance?) It seems more likely that his presence was the [his] problem, and if they are successful in their lawsuit it could throw us back into the dark ages when fathers were *not allowed* in the delivery room because of a fear that they could pass out. I believe it was a tragic accident.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Jul 8, 2005

I think in the end it will come down to "proximal cause." What was the actual "cause" of the injury, the complied-with request to hold his wife? Or his own inability to manage himself and say when he had had enough?

Also, no one required him to do that, it was basically offered and accepted. Most people who are with an ill or laboring family member or friend are there to be supportive and helpful--it's been a nice development over the last few years in the western world. It's always been the case in Europe and the Far East that family members were involved. It hasn't been so long ago here that everyone was banished from the labor room or the sick room, for various fears that generally amounted to control issues.

But I digress.

It is very sad that the husband fell, hit his head and died. But the medical professional is not at fault.

We think when something bad happens that someone is always at fault. In most cases, except for criminal acts, bad things can actually happen just because.

The husband could have said no thanks, or I'm not feeling so good, or help me--he did none of that. We know you don't go from feeling absolutely peachy keen to falling over and passing out. There is a little delay there where you start to feel a little off, then a little woozy, then a little dizzy, then you know something's happening that you need help with--there is at the very least a few seconds and usually a minute or so between the beginning and the end of that lovely process. Most of us have been there. We know.

So while it is sad, and I don't think the lawsuit is frivolous, after all the husband fell and died, I don't think they should win or that they will win.

Then again, this is the country where Michael Jackson got off, O J Simpson got off, and that nutcase won a huge settlement because she spilled her coffee on herself and didn't realize hot meant hot.

So who knows. Interesting thread, though.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2005

It is pretty common here to have a family member hold the patient - most of the time the patient asks for the family member to hold them. I see nothing wrong with it and do not think it even remotely means they are helping with a medical procedure.

All you are doing is hugging the patient -

What about husbands who come back for cesareans? Or as others have mentioned, hold their wife's hand and encourage her during labor? Or hold up her legs for her?

This is silly - shall we strap the man to his chair and not let him help at all??

Or maybe go back to the old days and not let men in deliveries?

I'm available to the CRNA when I'm free from having the laboring mom with her arms around my neck and her head in my chest . . . . plus she is more comfortable with her arms around someone that she knows and loves.

steph

BETSRN · Jul 8, 2005

Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

In my unit, Dad ( or significant other) is ALWAYS included and asked to help support Mom. The support person often stands in front of Mom and helps her lean over (she leans forward into him) . No big deal. First of all, Dad cannot see anything if he is in front of her unless he chooses to look way up over her shoulder. That's why he is in front. Something is not right with this story. There's another good example of an ambulance chasing lawyer! Why do you think medicine is in the pickle it is in? It is because of stupid stuff like this. makes me sick.

kbclary4 · Jul 8, 2005

This is awful. My husband gets grossed out by the smallest things. It's kind of girly really. When those shows come on TLC where they show parts of surgery he either has to change the channel or leave the room. I think he will just have to sit in a chair in the corner when I have children.

I can see the point of the staff asking him to hold her being a sticky subject. I do not think they should have asked him to do anything for liability purposes. I am suprised there is not a hospital policy regarding asking non-medical staff for assistance. It is asking for trouble. Just out of curiosity, does anyone's hospital have a policy that covers this?

However, this does sort of remind me of the lady who sued McDonald's because she spilled hot coffee in her lap. :banghead: Suing will not bring the husband back and in my opinion will only give her something else to focus on besides dealing with his death, thus prolonging her grief. I am also worried about what will happen when an expectant father faints just standing beside the bed or holding her hand. One poster said that people would probably still sue, but be less likely to win. That's probably true, but some dumb judge somewhere is going to side with the family eventually and what happens then. I guess you could go back to not allowing the exp. fathers anywhere near, but then someone will probably sue because he was not allowed to be at his wife's side while she was giving birth or the wife will because her husband was not allowed to be beside her. It really is a mess and I think that as sad as this situation is, she should not sue. Tragic accidents happen everyday.

BETSRN · Jul 8, 2005

I don't think that I would have had Dad hold Mom during that kind of procedure, but as to the liability? I think it was an awful, tragic accident. But, in our society of legal jargon, someone will be paying dearly-probably the hospital and CRNA. My heart goes out to the wife. How terrible to lose your husband at the joyous moments of labor and delivery!!! Melinda :crying2:

So in the above quote, if Dad isn't holding Mom (in a hugging position) what exctly is he doing?

I am sorry to hear that you don't involve the dads. It sure makes you have two free hands to hold the monitor on while she is sitting up etc., write on the strip, whatever...... Dad is a awonderful help if you just involve him.

LadyMadonna · Jul 8, 2005

I think it's a frivolous lawsuit. He was a grown man. He should have said no if he felt uncomfortable.

I have to agree with you. I mean, come on, this was one of those freak accidents that no one could have predicted or prevented.

People die everyday in freak accidents. Not that it makes this any easier for the wife of the deceased, but it wasn't anyone's fault. If he was that squeemish at the sight of blood/medical procedures, what was he doing in there? How would he have handled being present at the birth?

People are so sue happy it isn't even funny.

HuggyPuglet · Jul 8, 2005

IMHO, I think the 'rub' will be that the husband was asked to participate.

Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?