It's not my job to pray with you.

nursingaround1 · Jul 11, 2015

I would not participate in applying snake oil and I dont participate in a patients delusional behavior.
Unfortunately they have plenty of company in their delusion. Of course I dont confront them on this issue, I just ignore it. There has been a few times where I had to state that there was no god to get out of a situation.
At times patients credit god with the improvement of their health. When I hear this, I just ignore it. I had a 40 year old woman who had breast cancer. She went home to have faith healing. A couple months later she was back in the ICU to die. As I was caring for the tumors protruding from her chest, her sister was playing today's sermon. She even told me that I was the answer to her prayers. I asked how that was, and she said that she prayed that I would be her sisters nurse.
I know that a patients emotional health is just as important, and I act appropriately. I just wish our world would over this religion thing and realize the truth.

Finally, someone who knows the truth. Oh, and by stating 'there was no God' - this isn't ignoring them, and probably hurt them.

Kandy83 · Jul 11, 2015

I rather not get into a religious debate here. I will answer your question by pointing out that up until fairly recently in U.S. history an interracial marriage was illegal, the basis for this was the Holy Bible. In today's world having gay people marry affects my life and my own heterosexual marriage by ZERO. Spare me your bible morality, maybe I will listen to you the day you decide to actually follow the bible 100% without cherry picking the parts you want to follow. My whole point is that we should be tolerant and respect each other's beliefs or lack thereof.

I won't argue the Bible with you. But your statement is false, there is no where in the Bible that speaks against interracial marriage Only against inter-religion relationships. The Bible says many things but it doesn't say that at all. Moses married an African from Ethiopia so that point is moot.

Back to the OP, just explain to the patient that you're not religious and that you don't feel comfortable in praying with her. But you would be more than happy to get the Chaplin.

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Jul 11, 2015

In all my years of nursing, I have never been asked to pray while at work. However, I don't see why you can't participate by simply standing there, hold hands, or whatever. Really, isn't it about the patient, not you?

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Jul 11, 2015

I would not participate in applying snake oil and I dont participate in a patients delusional behavior.
Unfortunately they have plenty of company in their delusion. Of course I dont confront them on this issue, I just ignore it. There has been a few times where I had to state that there was no god to get out of a situation.
At times patients credit god with the improvement of their health. When I hear this, I just ignore it. I had a 40 year old woman who had breast cancer. She went home to have faith healing. A couple months later she was back in the ICU to die. As I was caring for the tumors protruding from her chest, her sister was playing today's sermon. She even told me that I was the answer to her prayers. I asked how that was, and she said that she prayed that I would be her sisters nurse.
I know that a patients emotional health is just as important, and I act appropriately. I just wish our world would over this religion thing and realize the truth.

This is interesting. There was/is another thread on AN regarding transgendered patients. I wonder if this same attitude would be received the same way. The world is filled with people who believe strongly in God but you see it as a delusion and refuse to participate. Even going so far as to say there is no god to a patient/family. If a nurse said that she would refuse to call a man a woman because he felt strongly that he was a woman and went so far as to say "no you are a man" there would be pages of unkind responses. Interesting.

canigraduate · Jul 11, 2015

This is interesting. There was/is another thread on AN regarding transgendered patients. I wonder if this same attitude would be received the same way. The world is filled with people who believe strongly in God but you see it as a delusion and refuse to participate. Even going so far as to say there is no god to a patient/family. If a nurse said that she would refuse to call a man a woman because he felt strongly that he was a woman and went so far as to say "no you are a man" there would be pages of unkind responses. Interesting.

Just wait for the East Coast RNs to get up. It's coming. I'd say something myself, but I don't trust myself to remain within TOS on that particular post.

AlphaM · Jul 11, 2015

You stated in a post after this one that you have no desire to debate but you use some very negative and inflammatory words in this post. You also make alot of assumptions. Just because I don't agree with someones choices does not mean that I am discriminating against them. I disagree with them. BIG difference. I can give great care to you without agreeing with you or playing along with your beliefs. Kind of like what everyone is saying to the OP. Perhaps that is only a one way street.

Yes I used inflammatory words and for that I apologize. Not agreeing is one thing and we all have the right to agree or disagree. My point on discrimination was meant for the example I used on gay marriage. Disagreement is one thing, refusing to grant marriage licenses because of someone else's lifestyle goes beyond disagreement and into discrimination. The example I used was related to interracial marriage, you don't see those people refusing to grant marriage licenses having a problem with interracial marriages even though the Holy Bible prohibits it.

allnurses Guide · Jul 11, 2015

I've never been asked to recite anything myself, and I believe most people are aware that even within a religion the prayers and prayer styles are different.

The vast majority of my experiences are "of the moment" anyway, so if I were to leave and call a chaplain for the patient, rather than hold hands and close my eyes for a few minutes, that particular moment would be gone.

Having said that I might ask the patient if they would like a visit from a member of their religious clergy, anyway. But that is mostly based on my own experience with my mom and the priest who gave her Last Rites. I don't identify with any particular religion, but I found the ritual much more comforting than I expected.

I would not for one second judge a nurse who wanted to do things differently, and I certainly would not try to convince a family there is nothing to all that God stuff. Families with deep religious beliefs are not delusional, and they have a pretty firm grasp of medical realities. How they integrate their faith in that reality is none of my business.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jul 11, 2015

My hospital is public (Canada). We are not required to pray with patients. I had a patient ask me to pray with her yesterday. It makes me uncomfortable. I dont believe in prayer, and faking it would be dishonest. As far as "spiritual support", I dont think you need to be a personally spiritual person to do this. Simply be kind and call the appropriate person. I respect my patients right to their own beliefs. I do t feel I should have to participate in those beliefs to be a supportive nurse.

I agree. With that being said, most all initial assessments have a section on religious beliefs, and if the patient wants to be seen by a minister/chaplain, whomever. It is also part of a care plan (or can be). Also part of this would be to ask if you can call their church and ask for visits. There are entire groups of church volunteers whose mission is to visit, pray with, and otherwise fellowship with sick participants.

Once the prayer ladies come, you will not be presented with the request again. But you might have an offer for a helping of a covered dish. The prayer ladies, union circles, rosary groups.....all saints and to make nice with the ladies (and some gents) will help you to be able to call them to come when you need them. Religious or not, they are a force among themselves and I am oh so grateful that they come and dig me out of an interaction or 2 that I don't think is something I am into mixing in with my work.

springchick1, ADN, RN · Jul 11, 2015

There has been a few times where I had to state that there was no god to get out of a situation.
I know that a patients emotional health is just as important, and I act appropriately

Telling someone who believes in God that there is no God is not how you "act appropriately". If that's your belief, that's fine. But there are many different ways to get out of a situation besides telling a patient that. Tell them you don't share their belief, tell them another patient needs you, etc...

It isn't your job to be your patient's spiritual advisor. If you feel uncomfortable, call the chaplain. It IS your job, however, to take care of your patient regardless of their religious beliefs. And looking at a patient and telling them there is no God when that's exactly what they believe in, isn't looking out for their emotion health which is, "just as important".

AlphaM · Jul 11, 2015

I won't argue the Bible with you. But your statement is false, there is no where in the Bible that speaks against interracial marriage Only against inter-religion relationships. The Bible says many things but it doesn't say that at all. Moses married an African from Ethiopia so that point is moot.
Back to the OP, just explain to the patient that you're not religious and that you don't feel comfortable in praying with her. But you would be more than happy to get the Chaplin.

I can start another thread as I don't want to derail this one, I'm also not against Christianity but I have to point out this for you as you might not be aware of some things on the bible or us history for that matter

Daniel 2:43 - And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Numbers 12:1 - And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

Acts 16:1 - Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father [was] a Greek:

Judges 14:1-20 - And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.

Matthew 25:32 - And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab:

OCNRN63, RN · Jul 11, 2015

If nurses sometimes help ADLs, why do we have CNAs?

OK...most of us can cook, so why have a dietary dept.? Most of us can clean, so why have housekeeping? Many are handy with making minor repairs...whoops, there goes all those nice people to help with plumbing problems. In fact, why have any support staff? We can just do it all.

Hospital chaplains are trained to meet patients spiritual needs. I would hazard a guess that they are far more skilled at meeting these sensitive needs than the average nurse. Why should someone be forced into a situation that makes him/her uncomfortable when there are others in the hospital who have been hired to do this?

I support nurses who don't feel comfortable doing this. As long as the patient has been referred to someone to handle his/her spiritual needs, then I think the nurse has met those needs. If a nurse wants to pray with a patient, I support that too.

I went to a school of nursing that was in a Catholic hospital. Not once do I recall being told that it was our duty to pray with patients. What about nurses who are atheists? Should they pretend to be religious just for the sake of the patient? I don't think so...that's disingenuous.

allnurses Guide · Jul 11, 2015

.......I went to a school of nursing that was in a Catholic hospital. Not once do I recall being told that it was our duty to pray with patients. What about nurses who are atheists? Should they pretend to be religious just for the sake of the patient? I don't think so...that's disingenuous.

I liked your entire post but just want to say that if a nurse was specifically asked to pray and had issues with that I have no problem with them saying no and finding a chaplain or other staff member.

But just standing there respectfully when others pray is ok with me.

To another poster - And yeah, never tell someone there is no God. That's pretty cruel at times of a health crisis or at end-of-life.