It's not my job to pray with you.

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I am not religious. I do not pray. If praying makes you feel good then awesome. Do that. When patients are religious and need spirutual support, I am the first one to find their local pastor/rabbi/medicine man/etc. for them. This is how I can support my patient. I do not feel however, that I should be pressured to say prayers. yes, I will give my patient space and quiet time to pray if they want, but i don't feel it's my job to pray with patients. I feel this is over the line.

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Point taken. I think it is silly to send out for someone to stand there, however, when the nurse could do it and be done with it in less than a minute. Much like I think it is not okay to call for an aide to place a bedpan when you are right there, or call housekeeping for water on the floor when you are right there and can get a towel in seconds, or call maintenance to switch the television's input source.

I am biased about religious interventions and I know it. If someone asks me to do something spiritual for them and it doesn't violate the standard of care, I have no problem doing it. I am a little contemptuous of people who get all giddy and flustered and say they are uncomfortable. In my mind, it's about the patient, not about me. If you need me to spin three times and say "maguffin" before leaving the room, I'm okay with that.

I know other nurses aren't as coldly practical as I am, so if it's something you are truly uncomfortable with, don't do it, but always have a backup plan in mind. Especially if it's the middle of the night and the on call chaplain is sitting vigil in ICU. Maybe you can find another staff member who doesn't mind praying and ask them for help.

I think a hospital chaplain would do a lot more than just stand idly by pretending to pray with the patient. That is where their education and skills come into play when it comes to dealing with a patient in spiritual distress.

I don't know what to say about your comment about being contemptuous toward a staff member who wouldn't feel comfortable praying with a patient. Call me crazy, but I thought we were supposed to support each other as fellow nurses.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I liked your entire post but just want to say that if a nurse was specifically asked to pray and had issues with that I have no problem with them saying no and finding a chaplain or other staff member.

But just standing there respectfully when others pray is ok with me.

To another poster - And yeah, never tell someone there is no God. That's pretty cruel at times of a health crisis or at end-of-life.

Thank God! ;) I was beginning to think I woke up on another planet or something.

If a nurse wants to pray with a patient, I support that. If a nurse wants to just stand in respectful silence while the patient/family member/clergy prays, I support that too. But if a nurse is not comfortable being present with a prayer being conducted, I support that equally. We didn't give up our civil rights when we became nurses.

Steph, you always do such a good job of being a calm voice of reason. I've really come to appreciate that of you over the years. Just wanted you to know that.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.

Ugh, brain block. What is the word for the guy who runs the mosque?!?

Imam.

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Steph, you always do such a good job of being a calm voice of reason. I've really come to appreciate that of you over the years. Just wanted you to know that.

I have come to appreciate you as well.

See folks - people who used to spar can be friends. Heck, VivaLasVieja and I went back and forth when I first started here.

Now I've met her in person a couple of times and we are friends.

I'm not a believer at all in the idea that you can't be friends with people who disagree with you about some things.

What a boring world that would be :facepalm:

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Just wait for the East Coast RNs to get up. It's coming. I'd say something myself, but I don't trust myself to remain within TOS on that particular post.

I saw that post before I went to bed and it really upset me, although I felt the language used was deliberately trying to incite certain responses.

Telling someone there is no God is just as bad as trying to force religious beliefs onto someone.

And if this poster truly thinks that religious people are delusional, well, there just aren't any words...I'm guessing half my patients have some belief system (based on the admission profile). That's a lot of patients. This nurse must have quite the time dealing with so many delusional people.

I can't think of many situations where I would request another nurse, but I would not want this person taking care of me.

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Man, if I got mad at all the people I disagreed with...

Well, I do, but I don't stay that way. Gracious, I'd be at odds with everybody.

OCNRN63, I guess contemptuous is a strong word. Perhaps gobsmacked? Or put off? I just don't see standing there silently as a big deal. I really do think of it as something simple that I can do and not have to make the patient wait, like grabbing a box of tissues or something. For me it's like saying a nurse is uncomfortable with feet and should get someone else to check a pedal pulse. Incomprehensible. I have been wrong before and probably will be again. Agree to disagree.

I guess if someone is uncomfortable with standing there, delegating is the best bet.

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As a side note, the chaplains are NOT always available. My hospital only has day coverage, which does me no good at all!

When I was a very new nurse, I took care of a dying man who was very, very angry. He did not ask me to pray with him, but he did ask me about my own beliefs. I kept telling him that I could arrange for the chaplain to come, but he said that he wanted to talk NOW, and he wanted to talk with ME. Frankly, I was so scared, I was shaking.

So I pulled up a chair and we talked for a long time. I tried to figure out where he was coming from, and it seemed that he did have some belief of an afterlife. He was worried about all the bad things he had done. He grew up in the inner city and had a very rough life, apparently. I think he just wanted someone to tell him that his God is merciful, so that's what I told him. I never saw him again after that night. I just hope I told him what he needed to hear.

I will never, ever forget that man, or how scared I was that night.

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I think some people may be hesitant to participate in religious rituals or prayer because of bad experiences with religion. I had very very bad experiences with religion as a child, and when I left home, I completely threw religion out of my life. It honestly would have bothered me to pray with a patient because it would have reminded me of certain things--It would have made me angry. Now, I've gotten to the point where I don't mind it. I'll pray to God, Allah, Zeus...whoever the patient wants to pray to. But it took me a while to get there. Some people, for their own emotional health, need to get someone else for the patient to pray with.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I would not participate in applying snake oil and I dont participate in a patients delusional behavior.

Unfortunately they have plenty of company in their delusion. Of course I dont confront them on this issue, I just ignore it. There has been a few times where I had to state that there was no god to get out of a situation.

At times patients credit god with the improvement of their health. When I hear this, I just ignore it. I had a 40 year old woman who had breast cancer. She went home to have faith healing. A couple months later she was back in the ICU to die. As I was caring for the tumors protruding from her chest, her sister was playing today's sermon. She even told me that I was the answer to her prayers. I asked how that was, and she said that she prayed that I would be her sisters nurse.

I know that a patients emotional health is just as important, and I act appropriately. I just wish our world would over this religion thing and realize the truth.

While I would support your right not to participate in a prayer, telling a religious person who is sick, in pain, and in spiritual crisis, "There is no God" is beyond cruel. What possible good could come out of your having said that?

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I think some people may be hesitant to participate in religious rituals or prayer because of bad experiences with religion. I had very very bad experiences with religion as a child, and when I left home, I completely threw religion out of my life. It honestly would have bothered me to pray with a patient because it would have reminded me of certain things--It would have made me angry. Now, I've gotten to the point where I don't mind it. I'll pray to God, Allah, Zeus...whoever the patient wants to pray to. But it took me a while to get there. Some people, for their own emotional health, need to get someone else for the patient to pray with.

I hadn't thought of that particular perspective before. Thanks for saying that, it makes me feel a little sheepish about my earlier stance.

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
I would not participate in applying snake oil and I dont participate in a patients delusional behavior.

Unfortunately they have plenty of company in their delusion. Of course I dont confront them on this issue, I just ignore it. There has been a few times where I had to state that there was no god to get out of a situation

At the risk of sounding argumentative which I am not trying to be, one could say that someone who choses to believe there is no God is also delusional. I spent many years running from religion and putting all my faith in science and what I could see, touch and feel in this world. Over time I settled on the idea of intelligent design as I could not bring myself to believe that the complexity of this world is all the result of some cosmic accident." There was a movie a few years back that starred the great Sean Connery - In it he stated that if a person prays and tries to live a moral life and dies to find heaven waiting he has gained everthing. If he dies and there is nothing waiting he has lost nothing.

This does not mean that everybody has to believe in religion or God. Each is free to choose their own path. My faith is a personal thing - I generally don't go around trying to prove God exists and I appreciate it when athiests refrain from trying to prove to me He does not. To each their own - its a big planet and there is plenty of room for all of us. But I digress from the original OP's Statement.

I have yet to work for a hospital that would force a nurse to pray with a patient so calm your jets. You always have the right to respectfully refuse. No one is forcing anything on you. If it truely makes you uncomfortable don't do it - but please honor your patients belief which you can do even if you don't agree. After all I don't believe in Butterfly, rainbow, glitter, kittens, but if taeling a peds patient a story about one would help I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Hppy

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I hadn't thought of that particular perspective before. Thanks for saying that, it makes me feel a little sheepish about my earlier stance.

Don't feel sheepish! You seem to be a no-nonsense, good hearted person.

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