Is someone justified in harassing someone to tell them if they got vaccinated or not?

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2021

On 8/4/2021 at 11:50 AM, Undercat said:

If they can't be shamed into vaccination then society will just move on to mandates and vaccine passes. I've read that some of the previously resistant in the usual culprit states are now requesting shots. Why should these people be allowed to cause such suffering and expenses for the rest of us?

Why should addicts get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should morbidly obese people, who don't take care of themselves, get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who commit all sorts of criminal acts get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who text while driving get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who have children they can't afford get to cause so much suffering and expense for the rest of us?

etc

Wuzzie · Aug 9, 2021

47 minutes ago, Kooky Korky said:

How long is history going to be the excuse for vax hesitation?

There's a big difference between being vaccine hesitant and anti-vax. At least in my state we have seen a big jump in the hesitant getting their vaccines unlike the other group. They, at least, can be educated.

allnurses Guide · Aug 9, 2021

43 minutes ago, Kooky Korky said:

Why should addicts get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should morbidly obese people, who don't take care of themselves, get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who commit all sorts of criminal acts get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who text while driving get to cause such suffering and expense for the rest of us?

Why should people who have children they can't afford get to cause so much suffering and expense for the rest of us?

etc

Addicts and the obese do not directly threaten the lives of other as a result of their illness.

Criminals and people that text while driving to others go to prison or are assessed fees.

I don't think most of us are prepared to make infants and children suffer because their parents are poor.

allnurses Guide · Aug 9, 2021

1 hour ago, Kooky Korky said:

The FDA has not given full approval to these vaccines. We who receive it are the guinea pigs.

The vaccines are not perfect, they do not prevent all cases of the killer COVID viruses, particularly the variants. And it looks like there will be no real end to the variants. The virus wants to live, so it is mutating. Unless maybe some evildoer keeps "leaking" it from some lab somewhere. Make no mistake, this is a real possibility.

4. There are side effects.

Your Assertions are not completely accurate you should do your research. The use of messager RNA has been use in Cancer treatment for around two decades and is not experimental. IT has an Emergeny Use authorization. It will be approved by the FDA as soon as long term immunity is established.

Technically a virus is not alive as we understand it! This is nursing school 101

Hppy

allnurses Guide · Aug 9, 2021

1 hour ago, Kooky Korky said:

2. The FDA has not given full approval to these vaccines. We who receive it are the guinea pigs.

3. The vaccines are not perfect, they do not prevent all cases of the killer COVID viruses, particularly the variants. And it looks like there will be no real end to the variants. The virus wants to live, so it is mutating. Unless maybe some evildoer keeps "leaking" it from some lab somewhere. Make no mistake, this is a real possibility.

4. There are side effects.

2. This covid vaccine hesitancy has zero to do with FDA approval; this is the most asinine argument of them all. It is an excuse that will be rendered obsolete shortly. Ironically, the same people that list not having FDA approval as an excuse also list no trust in the government as an excuse.

3. No vaccines prevent all cases; what they do is 1. stop pandemic/endemic spread, and 2. reduce serious and fatal illness. The variants we see emerging are the direct result of the virus spreading like wildfire through the unvaccinated population. The way to combat variants is to get enough people vaccinated or convalescent to stop the pandemic spread.

4. There are side effects; all treatments have side effects, as does the illness itself. Serious side effects occur in 2-5 per million vaccinated. Compare that to 2,000 people per million that have died from covid in the US. You are statistically 2000x more likely to die from covid than have a serious vaccine reaction.

RobtheORNurse · Aug 9, 2021

Personally, I am tired of being asked constantly. If someone doesn't want to be around, they are free to leave

toomuchbaloney · Aug 9, 2021

43 minutes ago, RobtheORNurse said:

Personally, I am tired of being asked constantly. If someone doesn't want to be around, they are free to leave

Gee, that's too bad. Vaccination status is important when the world is struggling with a pandemic. Your feelings about getting asked, on the other hand, aren't really important at all while the pandemic persists.

K. Everly, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2021

1 hour ago, RobtheORNurse said:

Personally, I am tired of being asked constantly. If someone doesn't want to be around, they are free to leave

51 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Gee, that's too bad. Vaccination status is important when the world is struggling with a pandemic. Your feelings about getting asked, on the other hand, aren't really important at all while the pandemic persists.

Your feelings, nor the feelings of anybody else, matter more than Rob's. They are worth no more, and no less. You may not like that Rob is irritated by being asked, but he has a right to feel however he does and he doesn't need your permission. Likewise, you don't need permission to feel however you do.

I am saddened that as a society we value health more than we value freedom. There can be no lasting societal health unless we are free. History has made that abundantly clear.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 9, 2021

10 minutes ago, K. Everly said:

Your feelings, nor the feelings of anybody else, matter more than Rob's. They are worth no more, and no less. You may not like that Rob is irritated by being asked, but he has a right to feel however he does and he doesn't need your permission. Likewise, you don't need permission to feel however you do.

I am saddened that as a society we value health more than we value freedom. There can be no lasting societal health unless we are free. History has made that abundantly clear.

I didn't mention my feelings in that comment that you quoted. Rob's feelings about vaccination status aren't important to the general public and only have value to him and those who share similar emotional response to the public health recommendations...unless we assign the appropriate negative societal value to such selfish views.

I am sad that as a society we don't seem to value patriotic duty as much as we value the right of individuals to endanger the society - because they can't manage their fears and emotions about a vaccine preventable disease during a public health crisis. I'm disappointed that so many educated people are so seriously deluded about safe and effective vaccines.

K. Everly, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2021

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I didn't mention my feelings in that comment that you quoted. Rob's feelings about vaccination status aren't important to the general public and only have value to him and those who share similar emotional response to the public health recommendations...unless we assign the appropriate negative societal value to such selfish views.

I am sad that as a society we don't seem to value patriotic duty as much as we value the right of individuals to endanger the society - because they can't manage their fears and emotions about a vaccine preventable disease during a public health crisis. I'm disappointed that so many educated people are so seriously deluded about safe and effective vaccines.

Rob never stated whether they are pro or anti-vaccination (at least not that I saw), nor whether they have been vaccinated. I have never shared my opinion or vaccination status on allnurses either. I get to choose whether I do share that, and with whom, and that's the beauty of it all.

The point of this thread started out as a question about whether people are justified in harassing people about their decision to vaccinate or not. It does not appear that it was intended to be a pro or anti-vaccination discussion, despite it turning out that way.

I'm not going down the "to vaccinate or not to vaccinate" rabbit hole on allnurses; I'm trying to keep this all purely about whether one has a duty to share the information about their choice and status. I will say I think we should all have medical agency and freedom of choice. As an American, those are the values inherent in the founding of this nation.

toomuchbaloney · Aug 9, 2021

4 minutes ago, K. Everly said:

Rob never stated whether they are pro or anti-vaccination (at least not that I saw), nor whether they have been vaccinated. I have never shared my opinion or vaccination status on allnurses either. I get to choose whether I do share that, and with whom, and that's the beauty of it all.

The point of this thread started out as a question about whether people are justified in harassing people about their decision to vaccinate or not. It does not appear that it was intended to be a pro or anti-vaccination discussion, despite it turning out that way.

I'm not going down the "to vaccinate or not to vaccinate" rabbit hole on allnurses; I'm trying to keep this all purely about whether one has a duty to share the information about their choice and status. I will say I think we should all have medical agency and freedom of choice. As an American, those are the values inherent in the founding of this nation.

Rob's feelings about being asked about vaccination status aren't important...it's going to be difficult for people unwilling to address those emotions during the remainder of this pandemic. Some Americans must think that there is no responsibility associated with our freedoms...most people figure that out by the time they graduate college...but clearly there's a whole segment of our society that lives in an entirely different understanding of what patriotism and social responsibility requires of an adult.

No one has said that people don't have freedom to choose badly about vaccination.

macawake, MSN · Aug 9, 2021

52 minutes ago, K. Everly said:

I am saddened that as a society we value health more than we value freedom. There can be no lasting societal health unless we are free. History has made that abundantly clear.

25 minutes ago, K. Everly said:

I will say I think we should all have medical agency and freedom of choice. As an American, those are the values inherent in the founding of this nation.

As a European, I don’t agree with your self-assessment. You clearly do not value health over much of anything. If you did, you would actually have affordable healthcare available for all, instead of wealthcare. I would argue that it’s very hard to be genuinely free, when you don’t have your health and lack the means to maintain or regain it.

Why do you have the shortest life expectancy out of all rich nations?

When you say that history has made it abundantly clear that you can’t have lasting societal health, unless people are free, can you give an example of what you mean? I have my suspicions regarding what you might have in mind. But since they don’t make a logical argument due to not being anything close to attempting to improve public health, protect the economy and save lives, I’d appreciate if you could elaborate on the specific historical events you have in mind.

There’s a really interesting but sad graph in the following link.

https://ourworldindata.org/us-life-expectancy-low