Diversity/Religion In The Workplace

[RutgersFlower2016]

Today, my friend told me the saddest story I ever heard. She had applied for a job and had been pining to get this gig for months. Finally a few months ago they contacted her for an interview. Culturally, she likes to wear a head wrap and has been doing so for as long as I have known her. Plus her boyfriend is Jewish and plans on marrying him and wants to get use to the idea of wearing it everyday. Well she decided that she would be herself and interview for the job as herself, tichel/head covering and all. The first interview went off without a hitch but she said she was asked if she was Muslim during the interview. I guess to explain her wearing the head covering. She replied no and left it at that. She was contacted for a second interview. Went well. Several months later she was hired. She attended orientation which lasted for several weeks. Than out of the blue, one of her supervisors called her to the side one day and asked her if she was Muslim, again she answered no, she even asked her if something was wrong with her hair, she replied no. The supervisor told her that she needed to come to work the next day with her hair out. She ignored that request and went to work as herself. The second day, she was requested to meet with one for her higher ranking superiors regarding her hair. Long story short, she was pretty much told that it was policy and she could not wear her hair covered to work. She explained that for weeks, she walked around with head covering and nobody said anything to her about it. She was told that if she pretty much did not show up without head covering she would lose her job, plus she was knew so they had no problem doing it. It made her very uncomfortable to the point of tears when she told me. She plans on quitting and looking for a new job. This is the world we live in. My heart is broken for her and she is still crying.

[vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN]

She should have spoken up and explained why she was wearing the head covering. In answer to the question "Are you Muslim?" All she had to do was reply that she was Jewish and the head covering was a part of that faith. Problem solved. By being evasive, she led people to believe she had no legitimate reason to wear it.

But why would she assume that is the reason they are asking?!?!

I wouldn't have, and didn't assume that they were asking in order to find a reason to approve her wearing the scarf.

I may be naive regarding other peoples assumptions.

I would not have thought they were asking in order to benefit the prospective employee.

I would have just thought they were randomly asking an illegal question.

Disclaimer: I live in the liberal West Coast and dated an orthodox Muslim man for a few years. Perhaps I'm not as sensitive about the use of scarves/ head coverings.

I've also known many Muslims who chose to or chose not to wear scarves.

I would *not* automatically assume a person was Muslim because they wear them.

I know Christians who cover their head for Church...

In my opinion, HR should have simply asked her if she's wearing a head covering for religious reasons, as well as HR should have explained that they're asking in order to obtain an exemption from regular policy to allow it.

[Skippingtowork]

I am the first person to oppose discrimination of any sort but I think this is a case of choices. Even if religious discrimination was evident, I think just as in life where you meet people and later find out that their beliefs is contrary to yours and you utilize avoidance to prevent conflict which is a choice, that is the situation here. She has made a choice of either creating a conflict or moving on. I think just as she should be allowed in an ideal world to wear her headwear because of freedom of expression, then the same should apply to the institution of being discriminating. Unlike refugee situations where people have no choice because death might be the alternative, this person has a choice.

There are several factors to consider especially future possibilities re jobs etc. A tarnished reputation as a troublemaker could impede future prospects even if she is completely right.

Personally I believe that all personal choices which I believe religion comes under, should be left at home. The moment you step outside into the world you subscribe to the wills of the society and if the prevailing culture is Fascism, then become a fascist or move. It's harsh but I cannot see how an individual's rights supercedes society's expectations. Your rights should only apply in the geography you control like church or home etc. otherwise you suffer consequences like the rest. I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be. Why should those idiots have to treat me differently?

Exactly as the Danes are subjecting new refugees to social indoctrination programmes because it's best for integration etc and essentially suppressing liberalism, I think the same should apply everywhere. In fact it doesn't go far enough for me. I think you should be made to make a choice. Stay in your country and die or give up all aspects including religions and have my culture foisted upon you. I think after a period of say three years of giving all aspects of my culture a chance including eating pork or beef and alcohol consumption if socially acceptable etc unless there are medical reasons, then after the time period you can make the choice to revert back to your own culture. We all have to sacrifice throughout life.

If I moved to Indonesia or Russia, I should have to learn Russian or become a Muslim or not move at all! I think it is that simple and when we coddle immigrants we do them and us a disservice.

By all means in your geography, do as you please, but the moment you step out the door no religion including Christian ones apply, sexual orientation is removed and the discriminators lose that choice of bullying as well.

What?????????????? Eating pork or beef? Your country, my culture? In your geography? Did someone take your blankie? My jaw is leaving DNA on the floor. I hope this was a joke that I don't understand.

[Wuzzie]

In my opinion, HR should have simply asked her if she's wearing a head covering for religious reasons, as well as HR should have explained that they're asking in order to obtain an exemption from regular policy to allow it.

I think we are all in agreement about this, however, the OP's "friend" only made matters worse by being evasive and disregarding a direct order without explanation. Now she is reaping the consequences. Frankly, and this is a complete assumption on my part, I think the "friend" knew darn good and well she was violating dress code (and as adult employees we are responsible for knowing what it is) and was being deliberately cagey in order to circumvent it. She should have just told them it was for religious reasons and left it at that. Heck she could have made up her own religion (a la the Flying Spaghetti Monster Pastafarians) and they still would have had to abide by it.

[Guest219794]

I am the first person to oppose discrimination of any sort but I think this is a case of choices. Even if religious discrimination was evident, I think just as in life where you meet people and later find out that their beliefs is contrary to yours and you utilize avoidance to prevent conflict which is a choice, that is the situation here. She has made a choice of either creating a conflict or moving on. I think just as she should be allowed in an ideal world to wear her headwear because of freedom of expression, then the same should apply to the institution of being discriminating. Unlike refugee situations where people have no choice because death might be the alternative, this person has a choice.

There are several factors to consider especially future possibilities re jobs etc. A tarnished reputation as a troublemaker could impede future prospects even if she is completely right.

Personally I believe that all personal choices which I believe religion comes under, should be left at home. The moment you step outside into the world you subscribe to the wills of the society and if the prevailing culture is Fascism, then become a fascist or move. It's harsh but I cannot see how an individual's rights supercedes society's expectations. Your rights should only apply in the geography you control like church or home etc. otherwise you suffer consequences like the rest. I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be. Why should those idiots have to treat me differently?

Exactly as the Danes are subjecting new refugees to social indoctrination programmes because it's best for integration etc and essentially suppressing liberalism, I think the same should apply everywhere. In fact it doesn't go far enough for me. I think you should be made to make a choice. Stay in your country and die or give up all aspects including religions and have my culture foisted upon you. I think after a period of say three years of giving all aspects of my culture a chance including eating pork or beef and alcohol consumption if socially acceptable etc unless there are medical reasons, then after the time period you can make the choice to revert back to your own culture. We all have to sacrifice throughout life.

If I moved to Indonesia or Russia, I should have to learn Russian or become a Muslim or not move at all! I think it is that simple and when we coddle immigrants we do them and us a disservice.

By all means in your geography, do as you please, but the moment you step out the door no religion including Christian ones apply, sexual orientation is removed and the discriminators lose that choice of bullying as well.

I was about to chime in on the theme that this is not a real story anyway- or certainly not complete. If it was, the OP would have clarified.

But then I read this, and had to comment.

I am the first person to oppose discrimination of any sort

Actually, by advocating for suppression of public expression of religion, you might have to rethink your position as a civil rights champion.

I think just as she should be allowed in an ideal world to wear her headwear because of freedom of expression, then the same should apply to the institution of being discriminating.

Well, we do have laws against exactly this type of discrimination. The great thing is that, as an American, you can elect officials who also advocate for discrimination. If unsure how to vote, you could always check and see who the KKK is supporting in any given election- that guy will be pushing for the right of institutions to discriminate.

Personally I believe that all personal choices which I believe religion comes under, should be left at home.

Of course you have a right to this personal belief. Or to believe the earth is flat, or 5,000 years old, or anything else. But it is simply wrong. Religious practice and expression are choices. The fact that people are born into a religion has historically been reason enough to discriminate, or even exterminate them. Not making this up- go ahead and google it. In fact, I challenge you to find a time in world history in which people were not discriminated against for simply being born into a religion.

I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be.

Well that's just kind of weird. I eat in Hispanic neighborhoods and don't get harassed. Maybe you are doing something wrong. Do you dress up like Pancho Villa and talk like the Frito Bandito?

If I moved to Indonesia or Russia, I should have to learn Russian or become a Muslim or not move at all!

On of the things that sets this country apart is our constitution. I confess, I haven't read the whole document, but am familiar with parts.. You should check out the first amendment.

Could you clarify whether it is Indonesia or Russia that requires conversion to Islam?

Seems odd that Russia, a predominantly Christian country would require conversion to Islam. And, your claim led me to google and I learned something. We have a federal commission called United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, and they just classified Russia as one of the world's worst violators of religious liberty.

Apparently Indonesia does require a citizen to identify with on of 6 religions, and Islam is predominant. But, there are 5 others that 20% of the country identify with.

I am not sure these 2 countries should really be our role model. Lets set the bar higher. Or heck we could even try to lead the world in religious liberty.

Stay in your country and die or give up all aspects including religions and have my culture foisted upon you

Well, I was born in this country, and am pretty sure I don't want your culture foisted on me. As far as any group of immigrants giving up all of their heritage: Please please please express this loudly at the next Saint Patrick's Day celebration. You obviously find that behavior offensive and unamerican.

By all means in your geography, do as you please, but the moment you step out the door no religion including Christian ones apply, sexual orientation is removed and the discriminators lose that choice of bullying as well.

This was kind of a double negative, but I assume you mean that I can be who I am in the privacy of my own home, but not in public.

Not really. For example- I happen to be straight. My sexual orientation doesn't stay home, it comes out the door with me. And I live in a country that prohibits discrimination based on that. Same with religion.

I think after a period of say three years of giving all aspects of my culture a chance including eating pork or beef and alcohol consumption if socially acceptable etc unless there are medical reasons, then after the time period you can make the choice to revert back to your own culture. We all have to sacrifice throughout life

Another reference to "my culture". Rest assured your culture is not my culture, despite the fact that we share citizenry. But, practically speaking, how do you propose this? First, this clearly applies to Muslims, but what about Jews. Do they have to eat pork? And, there are vegetarian religions. In fact, some Christians believe in vegetarianism as part of their faith.

So- are you thinking forced tube feedings? Otherwise, this will be tricky to enact.

Liberty and freedom to practice and express beliefs are hallmarks of this country, and historically we have been admired and respected for this. We have a system of checks and balances in place that ,for now, safe guard this. Assuming that these values continue to be the law of the land, you might want to start looking at other countries that share your beliefs.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

Maybe use Mr Google for some quick education then. There are several Christian sects such as the Mennonites, Amish, German Baptists. There are Sikhs, and there are Orthodox Jews. I'm probably leaving some out.

Adding Eastern Orthodox Church followers. Females, especially after marriage, are required to cover their heads while praying or visiting church and actively encouraged to do so in between; in some sects like Old Order Believers, all females of any age always cover their heads.

I know a CNM who is Amish and wears long-skirted scrubs and prayer cap at all times, even in OR. She told me once that she honestly tried to wear "normal" scrubs and no cap but, since she was wearing long skirts her entire life, she was not feeling comfortable. She only rolled her eyes when I asked how she did it through all her schooling and said that she still draws dirty looks sometimes for "not wearing normal clothes".

[longdistancerunner]

Where do wigs and hairpieces fit into this?

[chare]

Where do wigs and hairpieces fit into this?

Is there a religion that requires there use?

[3ringnursing, BSN]

I've heard of people being asked to cover tattoos and piercings with bandaids, but it seems covering you hair, or not covering your hair is a personal choice one's employer has no business being involved in.

Because this is an expression of religious freedom it seems this particular hospital should contact the risk management department, because I believe that they may have just put their foot into it, and a whole lot of hot water is coming down the pike.

Even if your friend is too nice a person to cause legal problems and just wants to get out of Dodge someone will find out - then the news papers will find out, and the local TV news stations (who would just love this story) …

Very bad publicity for this particular hospital that they trampled on this young lady's religious freedom.

Also kind of appalling for 2017 too - this isn't 1950.

[Wuzzie]

I've heard of people being asked to cover tattoos and piercings with bandaids, but it seems covering you hair, or not covering your hair is a personal choice one's employer has no business being involved in.

Because this is an expression of religious freedom it seems this particular hospital should contact the risk management department, because I believe that they may have just put their foot into it, and a whole lot of hot water is coming down the pike.

From what the OP said this does not appear to be a religious freedom issue. If it was she should have said so. She wears a headwrap (who knows what that is) because she wants to "be herself" and the employer has every right to dictate what an employee wears. They do it all the time. Otherwise I would not be sitting here in navy scrubs. I don't like navy. I'd rather not wear it. It isn't my color. I'm a Spring.

[Extra Pickles]

Is there a religion that requires there use?

orthodox Jewish women will sometimes wear these after marriage, wigs that is, instead of the headscarf.

[MunoRN, RN]

I've heard of people being asked to cover tattoos and piercings with bandaids, but it seems covering you hair, or not covering your hair is a personal choice one's employer has no business being involved in.

Because this is an expression of religious freedom it seems this particular hospital should contact the risk management department, because I believe that they may have just put their foot into it, and a whole lot of hot water is coming down the pike.

Even if your friend is too nice a person to cause legal problems and just wants to get out of Dodge someone will find out - then the news papers will find out, and the local TV news stations (who would just love this story) …

Very bad publicity for this particular hospital that they trampled on this young lady's religious freedom.

Also kind of appalling for 2017 too - this isn't 1950.

Except they haven't "trampled on this young lady's religious freedom" since she isn't wearing this for religious reasons. Even if she was a practicing orthodox jew, which she is not, the religious practice in that case to cover one's head once married, not prior to that. From the description the decision to wear this is for personal reasons, not compliance with religious doctrine.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be.

Well that's just kind of weird. I eat in Hispanic neighborhoods and don't get harassed. Maybe you are doing something wrong. Do you dress up like Pancho Villa and talk like the Frito Bandito?

I am pretty sure that is the funniest thing I have read all day!!!!

I have a question for everyone that keeps saying the "friend" was being evasive.

She was asked twice if she was Muslim. She answered twice in response to the question. NO.

How is that evasive. She was asked a direct question and she answered it as direct as you could possibly get.

evasive

adjective eva·sive \i-ˈvā-siv, -ziv, ē-\

Definition of evasive for English Language Learners

: not honest or direct

: done to avoid harm, an accident, etc.

She answered the question honest and direct. Like she was literally the OPPOSITE of evasive when answering the question. So I don't understand why so many people keep saying she gave evasive answers.