Diversity/Religion In The Workplace

[RutgersFlower2016]

Today, my friend told me the saddest story I ever heard. She had applied for a job and had been pining to get this gig for months. Finally a few months ago they contacted her for an interview. Culturally, she likes to wear a head wrap and has been doing so for as long as I have known her. Plus her boyfriend is Jewish and plans on marrying him and wants to get use to the idea of wearing it everyday. Well she decided that she would be herself and interview for the job as herself, tichel/head covering and all. The first interview went off without a hitch but she said she was asked if she was Muslim during the interview. I guess to explain her wearing the head covering. She replied no and left it at that. She was contacted for a second interview. Went well. Several months later she was hired. She attended orientation which lasted for several weeks. Than out of the blue, one of her supervisors called her to the side one day and asked her if she was Muslim, again she answered no, she even asked her if something was wrong with her hair, she replied no. The supervisor told her that she needed to come to work the next day with her hair out. She ignored that request and went to work as herself. The second day, she was requested to meet with one for her higher ranking superiors regarding her hair. Long story short, she was pretty much told that it was policy and she could not wear her hair covered to work. She explained that for weeks, she walked around with head covering and nobody said anything to her about it. She was told that if she pretty much did not show up without head covering she would lose her job, plus she was knew so they had no problem doing it. It made her very uncomfortable to the point of tears when she told me. She plans on quitting and looking for a new job. This is the world we live in. My heart is broken for her and she is still crying.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

They questioned her right to wear her scarf for religious reason in the wrong manner. They asked her "are you Muslim" showing blatant and glaring ignorance. Many orthodox Jewish women cover their natural hair in public, observing their traditional rites. She may have felt a bit humiliated or disrespected when they did this and it could explain her behavior. I don't know; I am not her and I am just supposing here----trying to put myself in her place, if you will.

I must being missing something. I don't get why it was a big deal her wearing the scarf and was she was grilled for wearing it.

THAT is what I mean by "doing this to her". It was wrong, the way it was handled.

Yea I am a little surprised the direction this debate has gone. I mean don't get me wrong, as my previous post a few pages over all but stated, the whole thing has seemed a little, I dunno, Scripted?? Regardless though, certainly the blatant "Are you Muslim?" doesn't seem the proper way to handle things.

Seems like it would have been more appropriate to say "I notice you prefer to wear a head scarf, is this for a religious reason?" If the nurse said yes and their policy covers that, well there you go. If the nurse said No, then they can state that it goes against their dress code policy while working on whatever unit and they are covered.

I certainly wouldn't be appreciative if someone just came out of no where saying "are you Muslim?" Religion can be deeply personal to some and to be honest, with all the "Muslim hate" and misinformation I see all the time now, I would be a bit on the defensive as well if that's how I was approached.

[Extra Pickles]

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who saw that. Or at least, the only one who found it cringeworthy.

No, not the only one. Meant to comment on it and forgot to go back. But yes really a silly remark.

[tyvin, BSN, RN]

Your "friend" did not explain why. When asked questions concerning the headscarf she should have said why. Concrete answers with no explanation come across as arrogant. I did not know that Jewish women wear the head covering during the day. I thought it was only in church; not everyone knows that.

About discrimination...your "friend" didn't identify as a protected group. For all intents and purposes they were walking around with a covering on their head. You want to have the protections of a special class than play the game.

If your place of employment had hired you with the understanding that you wear the headscarf as part of your religion you would be OK. You could have been afforded an accommodation by your employer. You chose not to disclose the information when asked not once, but twice you refused to tell them why. That doesn't make any sense on your part. No case here. People can't read your mind and ignorance of the law is no excuse.

You could talk with them and be upfront.

Link below; very interesting...I'm not Jewish: I didn't know. :) The link is for people who don't know about the headscarf practice in the Jewish community; like me.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiL39fcusjTAhVQ8WMKHcj6AmMQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myjewishlearning.com%2Farticle%2Fhair-coverings-for-married-women%2F&usg=AFQjCNFdXzWFkobWfAmUUi_GqC23X9JFQw&sig2=lw3-qzKG_bwuuKn9nG37aQ

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Your "friend" did not explain why. When asked questions concerning the headscarf she should have said why. Concrete answers with no explanation come across as arrogant. I did not know that Jewish women wear the head covering during the day. I thought it was only in church; not everyone knows that.

About discrimination...your "friend" didn't identify as a protected group. For all intents and purposes they were walking around with a covering on their head. You want to have the protections of a special class than play the game.

If your place of employment had hired you with the understanding that you wear the headscarf as part of your religion you would be OK. You could have been afforded an accommodation by your employer. You chose not to disclose the information when asked not once, but twice you refused to tell them why. That doesn't make any sense on your part. No case here. People can't read your mind and ignorance of the law is no excuse.

You could talk with them and be upfront.

Link below; very interesting...I'm not Jewish: I didn't know. :) The link is for people who don't know about the headscarf practice in the Jewish community; like me.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiL39fcusjTAhVQ8WMKHcj6AmMQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myjewishlearning.com%2Farticle%2Fhair-coverings-for-married-women%2F&usg=AFQjCNFdXzWFkobWfAmUUi_GqC23X9JFQw&sig2=lw3-qzKG_bwuuKn9nG37aQ

In this alleged story the friend wasn't asked about the headscarf. She was asked if she was Muslim twice. She was not and answered no. She was asked if she had a problem with her hair, she answered no. She didn't refuse to answer.

It does not fall on the nurse to be a mind reader and guess why they are asking. It falls on the management to be professional and use their words and ask the nurse if she is wearing a headscarf for religious purposes. She did not refuse to tell them why in the information given. She was never asked why she was wearing it. She was only asked if she was Muslim and if she had a problem with her hair.

These arguments are so absurd.

You say "people can't read your mind and your ignorance of the law is no excuse"

But she was supposed to read their minds? Their ignorance of ASSUMING only Muslims wear the scarf is her problem? Completely contradictory!!

That said I actually call BS on this whole story!

[Avid reader]

I am the first person to oppose discrimination of any sort but I think this is a case of choices. Even if religious discrimination was evident, I think just as in life where you meet people and later find out that their beliefs is contrary to yours and you utilize avoidance to prevent conflict which is a choice, that is the situation here. She has made a choice of either creating a conflict or moving on. I think just as she should be allowed in an ideal world to wear her headwear because of freedom of expression, then the same should apply to the institution of being discriminating. Unlike refugee situations where people have no choice because death might be the alternative, this person has a choice.

There are several factors to consider especially future possibilities re jobs etc. A tarnished reputation as a troublemaker could impede future prospects even if she is completely right.

Personally I believe that all personal choices which I believe religion comes under, should be left at home. The moment you step outside into the world you subscribe to the wills of the society and if the prevailing culture is Fascism, then become a fascist or move. It's harsh but I cannot see how an individual's rights supercedes society's expectations. Your rights should only apply in the geography you control like church or home etc. otherwise you suffer consequences like the rest. I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be. Why should those idiots have to treat me differently?

Exactly as the Danes are subjecting new refugees to social indoctrination programmes because it's best for integration etc and essentially suppressing liberalism, I think the same should apply everywhere. In fact it doesn't go far enough for me. I think you should be made to make a choice. Stay in your country and die or give up all aspects including religions and have my culture foisted upon you. I think after a period of say three years of giving all aspects of my culture a chance including eating pork or beef and alcohol consumption if socially acceptable etc unless there are medical reasons, then after the time period you can make the choice to revert back to your own culture. We all have to sacrifice throughout life.

If I moved to Indonesia or Russia, I should have to learn Russian or become a Muslim or not move at all! I think it is that simple and when we coddle immigrants we do them and us a disservice.

By all means in your geography, do as you please, but the moment you step out the door no religion including Christian ones apply, sexual orientation is removed and the discriminators lose that choice of bullying as well.

[LovingLife123]

"NORMAL" types of Jewish? What on earth does that mean?

Orthodox Jews wear tichels. If not a tichel, then often a wig. I've worked with many of them.

I meant mainstream Jewish. If you read I then stated more conservative sects. I most familiar with one type of Judaism which were several close friends I grew up with.

Sorry if my wording was not up to standard.

[LovingLife123]

I was quiet surprised no one jumped on that myself, especially given the nature of this debate. I had to go back and reread it think "did they really just say that"

Also cringe worthy are a few posts making assumptions that the poster wouldn't "qualify" as a certain religion until they were married and since she was just a fiance it didn't count. People can convert to other types of religion whenever they are ready, marriage doesn't automatically make you this or that. It has to do with your beliefs.

I love it when people don't read. Normal to me is not normal that everybody. Normal was my group of friends who grew up in I guess I'll call it mainstream Jewish. As I stated in that exact same post, I was not familiar with the more conservative sects.

Lol. Glad my Jewish friends don't get as offended as people on the internet do.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I meant mainstream Jewish. If you read I then stated more conservative sects. I most familiar with one type of Judaism which were several close friends I grew up with.

Sorry if my wording was not up to standard.

Yea pretty poor choice of wording. Just try using it in a different sentence. Ron wasn't your normal Mexican. Sue wasn't your normal Catholic. Surely you can see how that must sound.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I love it when people don't read. Normal to me is not normal that everybody. Normal was my group of friends who grew up in I guess I'll call it mainstream Jewish. As I stated in that exact same post, I was not familiar with the more conservative sects.

Lol. Glad my Jewish friends don't get as offended as people on the internet do.

This is hilarious. I read exactly what you wrote. Reading your post right here you just reminded me of this girl at work. We are far from easily offended, in fact I have never been accused of being easily offended. Mostly I chuckle and cringe at peoples ignorance and idiotic statements. I don't take personal offense to them.

Anyway this girl refers to arabs as A-Rab that's how she will say it. The A Rab store, we said something to her once asking if she realizes that's now how you say it. Her response was that they loved her at that store and don't mind, that they laugh with her and how much she is supporting them and their culture.

Our radiology tech was there when we asked her. He is from Bahrain and he shook his head and laughed. She asked "what??" He informed her it's not that they were laughing with her, that they were laughing at how ignorant american rednecks could be.

She got offended and report him not realizing the irony of the whole thing. I am glad you Jewish friends are not easily offended, I am sure they are grateful you consider them "Normal Jewish" type. :sarcastic:

[James W.]

Unless maybe.. they was thinkin'..

..she'd got hair-loss due to cancer, or somethin'?

& hadn't come clean on the application health questions..

Now I'd advise that 'A-Rab' smartmouth to wise-up some..

..before funnin' too hard 'bout folk's idiomatics..

..a natural born redneck can't be de-ported, but he surely can..

.. yep, 'specially fo' makin' such nasty un'merican..

..'hate-speech', at work..

..it'll mayhaps get 'im 'a priority' - on a 'watch list' at least, anyhow..

.. I'd reckon..

But seriously, isn't it curious that 'diversity' is Ok,

that is, as long as you claim membership..

.. as a uniform member of a particular group..

which wields well-known/identifiable 'political' clout,

- as contradictory - as that is..

[NurseCard, ADN]

I'm thinking of the Ray Stevens song, "A-hab the A-rab" right about now.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I apologize for all my spelling and grammar errors that I can't go back and fix now. Way past my bed time!