Diversity/Religion In The Workplace

[RutgersFlower2016]

Today, my friend told me the saddest story I ever heard. She had applied for a job and had been pining to get this gig for months. Finally a few months ago they contacted her for an interview. Culturally, she likes to wear a head wrap and has been doing so for as long as I have known her. Plus her boyfriend is Jewish and plans on marrying him and wants to get use to the idea of wearing it everyday. Well she decided that she would be herself and interview for the job as herself, tichel/head covering and all. The first interview went off without a hitch but she said she was asked if she was Muslim during the interview. I guess to explain her wearing the head covering. She replied no and left it at that. She was contacted for a second interview. Went well. Several months later she was hired. She attended orientation which lasted for several weeks. Than out of the blue, one of her supervisors called her to the side one day and asked her if she was Muslim, again she answered no, she even asked her if something was wrong with her hair, she replied no. The supervisor told her that she needed to come to work the next day with her hair out. She ignored that request and went to work as herself. The second day, she was requested to meet with one for her higher ranking superiors regarding her hair. Long story short, she was pretty much told that it was policy and she could not wear her hair covered to work. She explained that for weeks, she walked around with head covering and nobody said anything to her about it. She was told that if she pretty much did not show up without head covering she would lose her job, plus she was knew so they had no problem doing it. It made her very uncomfortable to the point of tears when she told me. She plans on quitting and looking for a new job. This is the world we live in. My heart is broken for her and she is still crying.

[ItsThatJenGirl, CNA]

The biggest issue IMO is that she was asked not to wear it and instead of making a case for herself about it, she wore it anyway. You break the rules (even if they are new), you get into trouble. That doesn't strike me as someone who is just trying to identify with her culture, but rather someone who is trying to create a conflict/make a point.

In the dress code for the hospital that I volunteer at, it states: The Health System reserves the right to determine the appropriateness of an employee's appearance and attire.

I imagine that's fairly common, and the broad language gives them the right to do whatever they want regarding dress.

[Cat365]

Offering a different perspective. They may have asked if she was Muslim because they didn't want to impinge on her religious beliefs but have no issues with impinging on her personal style. Did she tell them that it was religious, just not the one they initially thought?

oops. That will teach me to post without reading all of the replies. I see this was already brought up.

As a side note. Didn't I read/see something about nursing caps being stopped because of infection control? This is in reference to the poster who mentioned them.

[Extra Pickles]

Nothing had to be done. They hired her with it, let her work with it. Nothing had to be done.

That reasoning wouldn't be a sound one. If I interviewed while wearing purple scrubs but my employer's policy is that RNs must wear whites, should I be allowed to work wearing the purple scrubs because that is what I was wearing the day they met me? What if I personally identify with purple scrubs and have worn them every day for the last year, and when my supervisor told me that purple scrubs are not to be worn I did it anyway? Remember, she offered no explanation for her version of purple scrubs, she simply disregarded the rule she was being asked to abide by.

Would have been SOOO easy to avoid this whole thing if she had just said "I'm not Muslim, no, but I am wearing this headscarf for religious reasons." Discussion would have gone in a new direction if at all and I'm guessing that it would have ended right there, with her being able to wear the headscarf.

[macawake, MSN]

Perhaps everyone wears a dress or suit made from a flour sack in France?

Yes, the French all wear flour sacks designed by Christian Dior, Coco Chanel or Christian Louboutin... Or, perhaps not.

The reason that people aren't allowed to wear religious symbols in public schools and some other public institutions is the idea of separation of church and state.

French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools - Wikipedia

The French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools bans wearing conspicuous religious symbols in French public (i.e. government-operated) primary and secondary schools. The law is an amendment to the French Code of Education that expands principles founded in existing French law, especially the constitutional requirement of laïcité: the separation of state and religious activities.

(my bold)

What type of government does France have? So-called democracy? Communist? Socialist? Other?

Are you seriously asking if France is a "so-called" democracy? Or a Communist country??

I realize this is off-topic but I feel I must answer the question since it somewhat concerns me that it was asked in the first place.

Constitutional Limits on Government: Country Studies — France | Democracy Web

France is a republic with a mixed presidential-parliamentary system of government.

France today has one of the world's strongest democracies and largest economies. Its powerful presidency, unusual for Europe where a parliamentary system is more common, is balanced by its constitutional limits.

The system is strengthened by two constitutional courts, an independent media, a vibrant civil society, and an intellectual tradition of free speech and critical debate.

French politics, government and constitution. About-France.com

France is a republic; the institutions of governance of France are defined by the Constitution

The executive branch:

The head of state and head of the executive is the President, elected by universal suffrage. Since May 2012, France's president is François Hollande.

The President, who is also supreme commander of the military, determines policy with the aid of his Council of Ministers (Conseil des ministres).

The President appoints a prime minister who forms a government.

The legislative branch:

The French parliament is made up of two houses or chambers. The lower and principal house of parliament is the Assemblée nationale, or national assembly; the second chamber is the Sénat or Senate. Members of Parliament, called Députés, are elected by universal suffrage, in general elections (élections législatives) that take place every five years.

The judicial branch:

While the Minister of Justice, le Garde des Sceaux, has powers over the running of the justice system and public prosecutors, the judiciary is strongly independent of the executive and legislative branches. The official handbook of French civil law is the Code Civil.

The current President in France is Francois Hollande and the Prime Minister is Bernard Cazeneuve. France is in the middle of a Presidential election and the two main candidates are Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen. This election ought to be of interest even to Americans since its outcome will likely have a significant effect on Europe. A stable Europe is of course beneficial for the United States.

I hope this answers your question.

[Extra Pickles]

it's a little bit of a side note but goes along with what macawake was saying, the US is not a democracy, "so-called" or otherwise. We are a republic. I'm always surprised by the number of people who don't know that, or are in favor of changing other countries to a "democratic way" of voting and such. We don't have that here!

[SmilingBluEyes]

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to ask about someone's religion during an interview, or to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation (etc). Not saying this doesn't happen, but I think it's illegal.

P.S. I don't think this one story is representative of the world we live in (at least not in the U.S.). Your friend needs to get a lawyer if this story is true.

I am pretty sure you are right. It's likely ILLEGAL to do this to her. And very wrong.

[chare]

I am pretty sure you are right. It's likely ILLEGAL to do this to her. And very wrong.

Do what to her?

While it is illegal to ask about religion, it had no imoact as she was subsequently hired. Nor, according to the information provided, does it have anything to do with her employer tellimg her she can no longer wear her head cover.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I'm guessing he's not the normal type of Jewish, maybe one of the much more conservative sects? None of my Jewish friends wear head wraps..

"NORMAL" types of Jewish? What on earth does that mean?

Orthodox Jews wear tichels. If not a tichel, then often a wig. I've worked with many of them.

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

The correct question for management to ask was "Do you have religious reasons for wearing the head scarf?" Not "Are you muslim?"

So yeah, that was a screw up by management/HR.

But so was the employee's response.

She didn't have to just break the rules with no explanation.

Once she was told not to wear the head scarf, she should have told someone that she wears it for religious reasons. She doesn't have to prove that she has religious reasons, but she does need to let people know that she isn't being insubordinate.

So I'm not that sympathetic.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I also had to cringe at this "I'm guessing he's not the normal type of Jewish," The normal type of Jewish eh?? LMAO I think that got the biggest eye roll yet.

Anyway, I ran out of popcorn so I'll be back.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who saw that. Or at least, the only one who found it cringeworthy.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Do what to her?

While it is illegal to ask about religion, it had no imoact as she was subsequently hired. Nor, according to the information provided, does it have anything to do with her employer tellimg her she can no longer wear her head cover.

They questioned her right to wear her scarf for religious reason in the wrong manner. They asked her "are you Muslim" showing blatant and glaring ignorance. Many orthodox Jewish women cover their natural hair in public, observing their traditional rites. She may have felt a bit humiliated or disrespected when they did this and it could explain her behavior. I don't know; I am not her and I am just supposing here----trying to put myself in her place, if you will.

I must being missing something. I don't get why it was a big deal her wearing the scarf and why she was grilled for wearing it.

THAT is what I mean by "doing this to her". It was wrong, the way it was handled.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who saw that. Or at least, the only one who found it cringeworthy.

I was quiet surprised no one jumped on that myself, especially given the nature of this debate. I had to go back and reread it think "did they really just say that"

Also cringe worthy are a few posts making assumptions that the poster wouldn't "qualify" as a certain religion until they were married and since she was just a fiance it didn't count. People can convert to other types of religion whenever they are ready, marriage doesn't automatically make you this or that. It has to do with your beliefs.