Diversity/Religion In The Workplace

Emergent, RN · Apr 29, 2017

Regarding the Jewish side topic, I think what loving life meant was your average, secular, cultural Jewish person, which is the vast majority of Judaism in America today.

A tiny minority of Jewish people are religious and observant. For your average Jew, they go to a Passover Seder, celebrate Hanukkah, and that's about it. Very few even avoid leavened bread during the Passover season.

So exchange the word "normal" for "average" and I think that was more what was meant. Why don't we all give loving life a break and move on to something else?

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Apr 29, 2017

In this alleged story the friend wasn't asked about the headscarf. She was asked if she was Muslim twice. She was not and answered no. She was asked if she had a problem with her hair, she answered no. She didn't refuse to answer.
It does not fall on the nurse to be a mind reader and guess why they are asking. It falls on the management to be professional and use their words and ask the nurse if she is wearing a headscarf for religious purposes. She did not refuse to tell them why in the information given. She was never asked why she was wearing it. She was only asked if she was Muslim and if she had a problem with her hair.
These arguments are so absurd.
You say "people can't read your mind and your ignorance of the law is no excuse"
But she was supposed to read their minds? Their ignorance of ASSUMING only Muslims wear the scarf is her problem? Completely contradictory!!
That said I actually call BS on this whole story!

I feel you on the BS, I think this might be a case of telephone. Like, HR said "Do you require a religious exemption for your headscarf?" and the friend actually said "No." but told her friend the question was "Are you muslim?" or something like that. Because really, HR reps are trained hard not to break the law when it comes to stuff like that.

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 29, 2017

Because really, HR reps are trained hard not to break the law when it comes to stuff like that.

I was asked at least one illegal question on every single interview for a nursing position I had so far. So, they may be trained but do not appreciate the fact that doing so breaks the law.

Ellie G · Apr 29, 2017

She should have spoken up and explained why she was wearing the head covering. In answer to the question "Are you Muslim?" All she had to do was reply that she was Jewish and the head covering was a part of that faith. Problem solved. By being evasive, she led people to believe she had no legitimate reason to wear it.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Apr 29, 2017

Regarding the Jewish side topic, I think what loving life meant was your average, secular, cultural Jewish person, which is the vast majority of Judaism in America today.
A tiny minority of Jewish people are religious and observant. For your average Jew, they go to a Passover Seder, celebrate Hanukkah, and that's about it. Very few even avoid leavened bread during the Passover season.
So exchange the word "normal" for "average" and I think that was more what was meant. Why don't we all give loving life a break and move on to something else?

Oh I have no doubt that's what she meant. Doesn't make it any less cringe worthy. I mean we are adults here, it might be time for her to learn that probably isn't the best word to use when describing various cultures or religions. But then she actually comes back to defend her usage of the word and we are the absurd ones for finding fault in it. So she set herself up on that one.

I mean there is a pretty big difference connotation in the using the term average vs normal when speaking of peoples cultures and religions. Someone should have said something and I have no issue being that one.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Apr 29, 2017

She should have spoken up and explained why she was wearing the head covering. In answer to the question "Are you Muslim?" All she had to do was reply that she was Jewish and the head covering was a part of that faith. Problem solved. By being evasive, she led people to believe she had no legitimate reason to wear it.

How was she evasive. She was asked "Are you Muslim" she replied "No" How on earth is that evasive. She answered the question directly. Management should have used their words and been direct in asking her if her head scarf was for religious purposes. :sarcastic:

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Apr 29, 2017

I feel you on the BS, I think this might be a case of telephone. Like, HR said "Do you require a religious exemption for your headscarf?" and the friend actually said "No." but told her friend the question was "Are you muslim?" or something like that. Because really, HR reps are trained hard not to break the law when it comes to stuff like that.

I actually don't think any of it happened. LOL I think the OP wanted to come spark a debate by this story that just happens to correlate with a hot topic in recent years. But I am all about debates and lively discussions so I have no problem taking the bate.

All_night · Apr 30, 2017

I am the first person to oppose discrimination of any sort but I think this is a case of choices. Even if religious discrimination was evident, I think just as in life where you meet people and later find out that their beliefs is contrary to yours and you utilize avoidance to prevent conflict which is a choice, that is the situation here. She has made a choice of either creating a conflict or moving on. I think just as she should be allowed in an ideal world to wear her headwear because of freedom of expression, then the same should apply to the institution of being discriminating. Unlike refugee situations where people have no choice because death might be the alternative, this person has a choice.
There are several factors to consider especially future possibilities re jobs etc. A tarnished reputation as a troublemaker could impede future prospects even if she is completely right.
Personally I believe that all personal choices which I believe religion comes under, should be left at home. The moment you step outside into the world you subscribe to the wills of the society and if the prevailing culture is Fascism, then become a fascist or move. It's harsh but I cannot see how an individual's rights supercedes society's expectations. Your rights should only apply in the geography you control like church or home etc. otherwise you suffer consequences like the rest. I love Hispanic food and I have to suffer the harassment whenever I have to venture into the neighborhood to get my craving and I think that is exactly as it should be. Why should those idiots have to treat me differently?
Exactly as the Danes are subjecting new refugees to social indoctrination programmes because it's best for integration etc and essentially suppressing liberalism, I think the same should apply everywhere. In fact it doesn't go far enough for me. I think you should be made to make a choice. Stay in your country and die or give up all aspects including religions and have my culture foisted upon you. I think after a period of say three years of giving all aspects of my culture a chance including eating pork or beef and alcohol consumption if socially acceptable etc unless there are medical reasons, then after the time period you can make the choice to revert back to your own culture. We all have to sacrifice throughout life.
If I moved to Indonesia or Russia, I should have to learn Russian or become a Muslim or not move at all! I think it is that simple and when we coddle immigrants we do them and us a disservice.
By all means in your geography, do as you please, but the moment you step out the door no religion including Christian ones apply, sexual orientation is removed and the discriminators lose that choice of bullying as well.

That's a very medieval way of looking at the world. I think differently. It is possible for people of different beliefs and cultures to live side by side without problems. People just have to rise above. It was nice of you to share your thoughts on the world, but dang! What a worldview. O_O

ComeTogether, LPN · Apr 30, 2017

All she needs to do is state it's for religious reasons, although I can't for the life of me think of a religion other than Islam that requires a head scarf. If she's just trying to make waves she'll lose. If she truly wears it for religious reasons she simply needs to speak up. Sounds like she was evasive and maybe looking for attention.

Emergent, RN · Apr 30, 2017

All she needs to do is state it's for religious reasons, although I can't for the life of me think of a religion other than Islam that requires a head scarf. If she's just trying to make waves she'll lose. If she truly wears it for religious reasons she simply needs to speak up. Sounds like she was evasive and maybe looking for attention.

Maybe use Mr Google for some quick education then. There are several Christian sects such as the Mennonites, Amish, German Baptists. There are Sikhs, and there are Orthodox Jews. I'm probably leaving some out.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 30, 2017

Today, my friend told me the saddest story I ever heard. She had applied for a job and had been pining to get this gig for months. Finally a few months ago they contacted her for an interview. Culturally, she likes to wear a head wrap and has been doing so for as long as I have known her. Plus her boyfriend is Jewish and plans on marrying him and wants to get use to the idea of wearing it everyday. Well she decided that she would be herself and interview for the job as herself, tichel/head covering and all. The first interview went off without a hitch but she said she was asked if she was Muslim during the interview. I guess to explain her wearing the head covering. She replied no and left it at that. She was contacted for a second interview. Went well. Several months later she was hired. She attended orientation which lasted for several weeks. Than out of the blue, one of her supervisors called her to the side one day and asked her if she was Muslim, again she answered no, she even asked her if something was wrong with her hair, she replied no. The supervisor told her that she needed to come to work the next day with her hair out. She ignored that request and went to work as herself. The second day, she was requested to meet with one for her higher ranking superiors regarding her hair. Long story short, she was pretty much told that it was policy and she could not wear her hair covered to work. She explained that for weeks, she walked around with head covering and nobody said anything to her about it. She was told that if she pretty much did not show up without head covering she would lose her job, plus she was knew so they had no problem doing it. It made her very uncomfortable to the point of tears when she told me. She plans on quitting and looking for a new job. This is the world we live in. My heart is broken for her and she is still crying.

I'm all for being yourself, but when what you're wearing is against the company's dress code, you either stop wearing it or produce a legitimate reason for continuing to do so. Religious reasons are legitimate, "being yourself" or "might marry the Jewish boyfriend one day" are not.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 30, 2017

They questioned her right to wear her scarf for religious reason in the wrong manner. They asked her "are you Muslim" showing blatant and glaring ignorance. Many orthodox Jewish women cover their natural hair in public, observing their traditional rites. She may have felt a bit humiliated or disrespected when they did this and it could explain her behavior. I don't know; I am not her and I am just supposing here----trying to put myself in her place, if you will.
I must being missing something. I don't get why it was a big deal her wearing the scarf and why she was grilled for wearing it.
THAT is what I mean by "doing this to her". It was wrong, the way it was handled.

The OP wasn't specific about where her friend was doing this job (in a hospital? a bakery? a law practice?) or what the job entailed (patient care? reception? representing the business in public?). If the OP's friend was doing patient care, then the headscarf is often banned for infection control reasons. It's usually right there in the employee handbook, and no one knows it's there until upper management comes by and says "It's against company policy to wear a scarf at work". And then, once upper management has called attention to the policy, someone gets to talk to the OP's friend about the headscarf. That the discussion was handled poorly on the part of both the friend and the employer does not make it any less of a big deal.