I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -
Right patient
Right medication
Right dose
Right route
Right time
Right documentation
Right situation
Right place
RIGHT TO REFUSE.
I also remember my nursing instructor stressing how important number 9 is and that we as nurses have a duty to ensure that the right to refuse any medical care or medication is honored and upheld. To advocate for our patients and protect them. Protect them from what you may ask? To protect them from other medical professionals and “people” who think they can bully, manipulate, control and dominate any patient to force a medication, procedure or any type of medical care.
And wouldn’t you know that this RIGHT to refuse has been what I have had to defend more than anything? As an RN of more than a decade, I will forever support the right to choose and also the right to REFUSE any form of medical care. I can’t believe anyone feels that mandates of any form of medicine or medical practice or procedure is acceptable. Even more shocked that some nurses and NURSE LEADERS feel this is acceptable after a career of fighting for, defending and advocating for our patients rights.
Forced healthcare is NOT healthcare and I stand for the freedom this country was founded on. I have stood for my patients right to choose. And now that nurses and other healthcare workers rights are being threatened, I stand for their right to choose as well. COERCION is not CONSENT.
First of all I didn't cite that reference but thank you for sharing. After reading that article it reports A 0.7% infection rate and 2 deaths out of 9119.
It also says:
"Compared with patients who were excluded, patients who were included in the analysis were more likely to aged >65 years, African-American or Hispanic, and have higher proportion of those with hypertension, diabetes mellitus, atrial fibrillation, nicotine dependence, hyperlipidemia, prior stroke, COPD, asthma, and chronic kidney disease. "
When it comes to your support for blanket mandates and dismissing natural immunity, what am I missing? I really do mean that, what did I miss?
You cited this study on page 15 of the "Valid reasons to not get vaccinated" thread. You've also referenced the CDC as putting the reinfection rate at about 1 percent, in which they reference this study.
It was 2 deaths out of 63 reinfections not 9119, the CFR is based on the number of deaths per infections.
At the time, there were clear associations between advanced age / chronic illness and mortality risk, but that's not really an argument that only they should get vaccinated since to be protected they depend as much everyone else getting vaccinated as getting vaccinated themselves.
But as the CDC points out those clearly defined risk characteristics aren't really a thing anymore. The majority of our Covid patients now are in their 40's and 30's, they don't have pre-existing conditions at a higher rate than the general population.
More than a quarter of new cases are in children and our sister hospital has 9 little kids currently on ECMO, the most they've ever had in the history of the program is 2 on ECMO and most of the time they have no kids on ECMO.
I don't disagree that there can be issues where the balance of pros and cons is debatable, but this isn't even close.
You cited this study on page 15 of the "Valid reasons to not get vaccinated thread. You've also referenced the CDC as putting the reinfection rate at about 1 percent, in which the reference this study.
It was 2 deaths out of 63 reinfections not 9119, the CFR is based on the number of deaths per infections.
At the time, there were clear associations between advanced age / chronic illness and mortality risk, but that's not really an argument that only they should get vaccinated since to be protected they depend as much everyone else getting vaccinated as getting vaccinated themselves.
But as the CDC points out those clearly defined risk characteristics aren't really a thing anymore. The majority of our Covid patients now are in their 40's and 30's, they don't have pre-existing conditions at a higher rate than the general population.
More than a quarter of new cases are in children and our sister hospital has 9 little kids currently on ECMO, the most they've ever had in the history of the program is 2 on ECMO and most of the time they have no kids on ECMO.
I don't disagree that there can be issues where the balance of pros and cons is debatable, but this isn't even close.
2 people of the study of 9119 died right? And yea, 2 of 63 reinfection died which is horrible however look at the demographic of the people in this study. High risk.
Now if you're making the case that the reinfected are being hospitalized and dying in large numbers get more specific than "the majority of our covid patients are X and Y years old".
If you have consistent verifiable information and multiple sources showing a significant disparity of hospitalizations and deaths between the vaccinated and previously infected please share.
I think we should test out the theory. All of the anti vaxxers are invited to a party where Kid Rock and Eric Clapton are playing and no mask wearing is allowed. Let's see how many goes and anyone getting seriously ill, gets no treatment from any medical professionals!
I mean if you don't believe in the ***, sign a waiver! Let's see if they will put their money where their mouth is? Let's see if these big mouth people really believe the bollocks they are constantly spewing!
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
23 hours ago, macawake said:
Like TMB said, the world is in the middle of the worst pandemic any of us have lived through in our lifetimes. (I’m assuming there are not a lot of 103 year olds reading AN).
If you think about it, have you as a nurse prior to this pandemic ever experienced epidemics that necessitated hospitals having refrigerated trucks and trailers parked outside because they ran out of space in their morgues? If any of the childhood diseases or some other infectious disease had caused the same amount of strain on healthcare systems and affected the world economy as Covid has, I think you would have seen vaccines for those disesases being ”pushed” equally hard. So really, it’s not strange that we hear a lot about the Covid vaccines and the importance of getting vaccinated.
I suspect that the majority of healthcare workers who have been involved in Covid care were joyous and immensely relieved when safe and effective vaccines became available. I think a lot of people were, not just healthcare professionals. I suspect that is why the nurse congratulated you. S/he probably assumed that you shared the feeling of relief that we’re seeing light at the end of the tunnel.
Actually Polio vaccination was "pushed" pretty hard in the 60s. I was a little girl barely in kindergarten when they lined us up in the hallway and vaccinated us all. It was an epidemic in Chicago and they wanted to get a grip on it.
So yea, there IS a history of vaccines being "pushed hard" in the not to far distant past. And for good reason.
We need to continue to strongly encourage every eligible person to be vaccinated ASAP. Maybe we need to read up on history and learn.
Actually Polio vaccination was "pushed" pretty hard in the 60s. I was a little girl barely in kindergarten when they lined us up in the hallway and vaccinated us all. It was an epidemic in Chicago and they wanted to get a grip on it.
I was probably right behind you in line! There was always one kid who cried but the rest of us were stoic and put on a brave face!
Actually Polio vaccination was "pushed" pretty hard in the 60s. I was a little girl barely in kindergarten when they lined us up in the hallway and vaccinated us all. It was an epidemic in Chicago and they wanted to get a grip on it.
So yea, there IS a history of vaccines being "pushed hard" in the not to far distant pass. And for good reason.
We need to continue to strongly encourage every eligible person to be vaccinated ASAP. Maybe we need to read up on history and learn.
Thank you for this post.
You have a point. I wasn't alive when Polio and the like were killing allot of people.
I know the Nurse who congratulated me for getting the vaccine was just being positive and make everything feel like it was a good thing. I was not disparaging her at all.
Perhaps I've been affected by the "hype" too. I just thought about administering a chemo drug and saying congratulations or a opiate.
Now. What I do not agree with is lotteries and incentives for getting the vaccine. Nope. Never thought 8 would ever see that!
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
44 minutes ago, Cclm said:
Perhaps I've been affected by the "hype" too. I just thought about administering a chemo drug and saying congratulations or a opiate.
I had a chemo course interrupted and delayed because the manufacturer of 5FU stopped shipment and wanted all patients to transition to their new oral medication. What that immediately does to insurance payment is a different story. My chemo was delayed while I changed health system and was able to access a different distribution hub for a university health system in a different but nearby city. It took almost 7 full days to get my care transferred and the protocol established for my unusual cancer. That transfer was kind of a story at the chemo center and my chemo nurse congratulated us when I got my first infusion.
The addition of a week onto my treatment protocol extended my sick leave a week beyond my FML and my health care employer terminated my employment.
I had a chemo course interrupted and delayed because the manufacturer of 5FU stopped shipment and wanted all patients to transition to their new oral medication. What that immediately does to insurance payment is a different story. My chemo was delayed while I changed health system and was able to access a different distribution hub for a university health system in a different but nearby city. It took almost 7 full days to get my care transferred and the protocol established for my unusual cancer. That transfer was kind of a story at the chemo center and my chemo nurse congratulated us when I got my first infusion.
The addition of a week onto my treatment protocol extended my sick leave a week beyond my FML and my health care employer terminated my employment.
That is terrible TMB. I am sorry that happened to you. And so so sorry about the nasty retirement comment I made to you. Canada has free health care so I couldn't imagine having to rely on employment for health insurance. I think we might actually agree on something that free(well almost, we pay high taxes) health care is a human right!
Cancer is a terrible thing and I hope you got the treatment you need. Something tells me you are a fighter tho.... ?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 minute ago, Cclm said:
That is terrible TMB. I am sorry that happened to you. And so so sorry about the nasty retirement comment I made to you. Canada has free health care so I couldn't imagine having to rely on employment for health insurance. I think we might actually agree on something that free(well almost, we pay high taxes) health care is a human right!
Cancer is a terrible thing and I hope you got the treatment you need. Something tells me you are a fighter tho.... ?
I'm not a fighter. I avoided military service and combat sports. I engage in listening and reading and life sports (things you can do your entire life time; swimming, hiking, cycling, golf...) I live for music and art and love. I hunt and fish for subsistence but don't eat much meat because of that fight to the death.
I am a long haired old man now who reads more carefully what he read too quickly as a young man.
BostonFNP, APRN
2 Articles; 5,584 Posts
A lot has changed in six hours it seems?