I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -
Right patient
Right medication
Right dose
Right route
Right time
Right documentation
Right situation
Right place
RIGHT TO REFUSE.
I also remember my nursing instructor stressing how important number 9 is and that we as nurses have a duty to ensure that the right to refuse any medical care or medication is honored and upheld. To advocate for our patients and protect them. Protect them from what you may ask? To protect them from other medical professionals and “people” who think they can bully, manipulate, control and dominate any patient to force a medication, procedure or any type of medical care.
And wouldn’t you know that this RIGHT to refuse has been what I have had to defend more than anything? As an RN of more than a decade, I will forever support the right to choose and also the right to REFUSE any form of medical care. I can’t believe anyone feels that mandates of any form of medicine or medical practice or procedure is acceptable. Even more shocked that some nurses and NURSE LEADERS feel this is acceptable after a career of fighting for, defending and advocating for our patients rights.
Forced healthcare is NOT healthcare and I stand for the freedom this country was founded on. I have stood for my patients right to choose. And now that nurses and other healthcare workers rights are being threatened, I stand for their right to choose as well. COERCION is not CONSENT.
That’s….not true about vaccines at all. Literally every vaccine comes with the possibility of asymptomatic or mild infection and the chance to pass it on to others. And although people CAN get COVID while fully vaccinated, the vaccines still have a high efficacy or preventing spread and infection. And also….making people less sick when they get infected is a good thing.
Literally every flu season training I’ve had on the flu shot has talked about how if you get the flu anyway after being vaccinated, it reduces your likelihood of severe infection.
I haven’t heard a single objection to the COVID vaccine that doesn’t rely on antivax misinformation that’s become so pervasive it’s taken as a truth. The COVID vaccine is a vaccine and it’s nonsense to say otherwise.
How is what they said misinformation when they quoted facts from the CDC?
You haven't heard a single objection that doesn't rely on antivax misinformation? Here's one:
Reinfection is RARE among those with natural immunity. Little to no data reflects how many reinfected people are hospitalized and dying. If someone talked to their doctor, was determined to be low risk, a case could be made for them to not be forced to take the vaccine. What's anti vax about that?
No it displays your glaring lack of understanding the point that was being made, showing up late to the discussion. Get it right first then come again.
How would a vaccine benefit someone who hasn't had it?
Are you saying the vaccine doesn't work and therefore, the unvaccinated are going to pass COVID and kill the vaccinated? Keep in mind no one is exempt from carrying and spreading. Variants were already here before the vaccine.
Don't mistake this to mean people shouldn't take the vaccine.
The vaccinated absolutely protect the unvaccinated. Get it right first and come again.
No it displays your glaring lack of understanding the point that was being made, showing up late to the discussion. Get it right first then come again.
How would a vaccine benefit someone who hasn't had it?
Are you saying the vaccine doesn't work and therefore, the unvaccinated are going to pass COVID and kill the vaccinated? Keep in mind no one is exempt from carrying and spreading. Variants were already here before the vaccine.
Don't mistake this to mean people shouldn't take the vaccine.
I understand the point you’re trying to make and it’s based on poor understanding of how vaccines work.
How would a vaccine benefit someone who hasn’t it? Have you not heard of herd immunity? You mention that the vaccinated can still get sick (although at a lower and less severe rate) and lower vaccination numbers mean more opportunities to be exposed to the virus and more opportunities to get sick. So when a higher percentage of the population is vaccinated this reduces potential exposure for everyone. It’s why we recommend anyone around neonates get their TDaP. It's why we’ve seen measles outbreaks where MMR vaccine rates are low. This is…super basic.
The vaccinated absolutely protect the unvaccinated. Get it right first and come again.
I sure hope you don't read your charts as poorly as you read my post.
I said the vaccine, you know, the shot, the drug, can't benefit someone that hasn't taken it
I didn't say anything about vaccinated people benefiting unvaccinated
Check yourself.
This is why we are having challenges with this vaccine. Notice how you and other vaccines supporters don't like what others have to say and have an opposing view? You get arrogant or aggressive. Then we have to respond in kind. Then it's a battle of wits. Nobody listens or tries to understand.
I shutter to think how your condescending biased attitudes permeates the examination room when your vaccine hesitant patients consult you as you "counter" their fears with "the science" and pretend to empathize with them.
I noticed you left that subject alone from the last post.
I understand the point you’re trying to make and it’s based on poor understanding of how vaccines work.
How would a vaccine benefit someone who hasn’t it? Have you not heard of herd immunity? You mention that the vaccinated can still get sick (although at a lower and less severe rate) and lower vaccination numbers mean more opportunities to be exposed to the virus and more opportunities to get sick. So when a higher percentage of the population is vaccinated this reduces potential exposure for everyone. It’s why we recommend anyone around neonates get their TDaP. It's why we’ve seen measles outbreaks where MMR vaccine rates are low. This is…super basic.
First of all SARS ain't TDaP. That's super basic.
Perhaps you're not understanding my point.
If hidden cat and everyone hidden cat loves takes the vaccine, what's the threat to hidden cat and company if the vaccine works? This would leave behind the unvaccinated, who decided not to take it, to take the risk of infection without vaccine protection. Why do you need to force them to take it if they want to take that risk?
They'll either get sick n die or get sick and develop immunity like the vast majority do.
I'm not on a mission to say people should take that risk but if they do, what's it to you?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
15 minutes ago, jive turkey said:
If hidden cat and everyone hidden cat loves takes the vaccine, what's the threat to hidden cat and company if the vaccine works?
The first threat is the continued viral replication at levels which predictably produce variants, and with this virus, too often the variants are more contagious and are more likely to make younger adults seriously ill or to exceed previously developed immunity (natural or vaccine mediated).
The second threat is the stress that is placed upon the local and regional health systems as they struggle to provide care for the people who are choosing to gamble with the virus and illness. My state's covid dashboard reflects that most of the hospitals have a relative lack of beds of all kinds right now. That means that it's harder for the noncovid illnesses or injuries to get the care they require and deserve.
The third threat is the economic costs to a community where lots and lots of people are unable to work because they have covid infection or exposure. It's difficult to staff work environments where the staff are at increased risk of exposure to covid. That's especially true when the staff don't have benefit of paid sick time or health insurance to cover any treatment that they may require.
I sure hope you don't read your charts as poorly as you read my post.
I said the vaccine, you know, the shot, the drug, can't benefit someone that hasn't taken it
I didn't say anything about vaccinated people benefiting unvaccinated
Check yourself.
This is why we are having challenges with this vaccine. Notice how you and other vaccines supporters don't like what others have to say and have an opposing view? You get arrogant or aggressive. Then we have to respond in kind. Then it's a battle of wits. Nobody listens or tries to understand.
I shutter to think how your condescending biased attitudes permeates the examination room when your vaccine hesitant patients consult you as you "counter" their fears with "the science" and pretend to empathize with them.
I noticed you left that subject alone from the last post.
You posted something ignorant. You got corrected. I don't know what else to tell you. You can try and play semantics to save face if that suits you, but the fact remains: vaccines, every single vaccine shot given, protects the vaccinated directly and the unvaccinated indirectly. The only vaccine that doesn't protect both is one that is unused.
You keep trying to attack me and my practice, does that make you feel better? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Patients are free to leave my practice anytime they wish if they don't like or trust me (or if they think I can't read their charts). You can keep making comments but really it just makes you look petty.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Being vaccinated benefits us beyond just the vaccinated being protected.
I have an acquaintance who could not get a badly broken femur surgically repaired in a timely manner thanks to the hospitals in his area being full of (95% unvaccinated) patients. His doctors were checking hospitals in excess of 500 miles away to try and get him in. You realize then, that means maiming and disability if he can't get the bone fixed!
A veteran died of gallstone pancreatitis because he could not get appropriate admission and care timely. Again, no hospitals would admit him in 5 states around him. He died waiting for a bed.
And the implications on the economy affect us all. ALL of us.
So anyone saying vaccination does not have BROAD-reaching benefits is not speaking the truth!
You posted something ignorant. You got corrected. I don't know what else to tell you. You can try and play semantics to save face if that suits you, but the fact remains: vaccines, every single vaccine shot given, protects the vaccinated directly and the unvaccinated indirectly. The only vaccine that doesn't protect both is one that is unused.
You keep trying to attack me and my practice, does that make you feel better? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Patients are free to leave my practice anytime they wish if they don't like or trust me (or if they think I can't read their charts). You can keep making comments but really it just makes you look petty.
He gets mad for being attack personally. He's doing the same thing. He thought he was immortal.?
I'm fine people don't get vaccinated as long they stay out of public. They should be tied to their porch until there's a definite solution to cure the COVID-19 or delta variants. If they have medical problems prevent them from getting the vaccines, that's a different narrative.
They're lucky I'm just an average gal, or everyone gets GPS around its ankle.
You posted something ignorant. You got corrected. I don't know what else to tell you. You can try and play semantics to save face if that suits you, but the fact remains: vaccines, every single vaccine shot given, protects the vaccinated directly and the unvaccinated indirectly. The only vaccine that doesn't protect both is one that is unused.
You keep trying to attack me and my practice, does that make you feel better? It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Patients are free to leave my practice anytime they wish if they don't like or trust me (or if they think I can't read their charts). You can keep making comments but really it just makes you look petty.
It's not semantics. You're misreading what I'm saying and made a smart alec remark.
You're correcting me on something I wasn't saying.
The ignorance comes from your comments and your negative, condescending, unproductive attitude.
I'm not picking on your practice I'm picking on your attitude. An attitude like yours is what turns people further away than they already were. You need to drop the high and mighty holier then thou attitude when people come to you. When people come to you with "excuses" as you call them it's their way of saying "I'm afraid"!
That's your job to stop and acknowledge their feelings, show empathy and respect for what they have to say instead of "countering" them a you say.
Same goes for the rest of you. Talking crap about the hesitant DOES NOT HELP. Be better than the "anti vaxxer" and show some compassion. Otherwise you make it clear you're more concerned with being correct than increasing vaccinations.
The first threat is the continued viral replication at levels which predictably produce variants, and with this virus, too often the variants are more contagious and are more likely to make younger adults seriously ill or to exceed previously developed immunity (natural or vaccine mediated).
The second threat is the stress that is placed upon the local and regional health systems as they struggle to provide care for the people who are choosing to gamble with the virus and illness. My state's covid dashboard reflects that most of the hospitals have a relative lack of beds of all kinds right now. That means that it's harder for the noncovid illnesses or injuries to get the care they require and deserve.
The third threat is the economic costs to a community where lots and lots of people are unable to work because they have covid infection or exposure. It's difficult to staff work environments where the staff are at increased risk of exposure to covid. That's especially true when the staff don't have benefit of paid sick time or health insurance to cover any treatment that they may require.
And the fact that vaccines aren’t 100% and have never been claimed to be.
Being around unvaccinated people is still a risk to me.
IDK, I’m pretty sure jive turkey is just intentionally wasting everyone’s time. I’ve lost track of the logical fallacies and malapropisms (“shutter to think” was adorable tho) and goal-post moving and that in and of itself is pretty diagnostic for bad-faith sea lioning or straight up trolling.
I would love to see more rigorous science and research-evaluation education for nursing school come out of the pandemic. Clearly there is a huge need for it. Frankly for the general population as well.
jive turkey
677 Posts
How is what they said misinformation when they quoted facts from the CDC?
You haven't heard a single objection that doesn't rely on antivax misinformation? Here's one:
Reinfection is RARE among those with natural immunity. Little to no data reflects how many reinfected people are hospitalized and dying. If someone talked to their doctor, was determined to be low risk, a case could be made for them to not be forced to take the vaccine. What's anti vax about that?