Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
3 minutes ago, DancRN said:

https://www.heritage.org/marriage-and-family/commentary/new-report-shows-planned-parenthood-raked-15-billion-taxpayer-funds

That shows money given to planned parenthood, which again, only a small fraction of their services are abortion.

Look at the Hyde amendment. Forbes gives a good explanation as to which situations taxes or taxpayer funded insurance may be used to fund abortions.

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On 5/25/2019 at 9:46 PM, LilPeanut said:

I find that incredibly racist, bigoted and judgmental that you assume no one can be moral or ethical without the background of religion.

And I find you illiterate because you obviously can’t or didn’t read what I was saying. I am so sick and tired of people like you associating hate to differences in opinion. It seems to me that you are transferring you obvious disgust for religion on anyone who you think is slightly religious. Go look in the mirror if you are hunting for bigots. On that note, I’m done talking to you. I don’t have intellectual discussions with people who can’t tell the difference between opinions and bad motives.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
38 minutes ago, DancRN said:

Plenty of tax money goes towards abortion. Don’t be lazy, just look it up. Just look up Planned Parenthood’s insane amount of money received from federal and local tax money.

Public funds only pay for a portion of the non-abortion services PP provides, so how do you figure that the amount of public funds PP receives exceeds the cost of the non-abortion services PP provides and therefore public funds are being used to fund abortions? Can you provide any evidence of this?

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
On 5/25/2019 at 5:25 PM, MunoRN said:

And no tax money goes to fund abortions.

In my state (Oregon) it does. We pay for a system that covers free abortions for all who want one, including undocumented immigrants. I hate that my tax money is going toward something I'm morally opposed to, but it's not like I can claim the status of conscientious objector. It doesn't work that way. But I pay taxes under protest, and I write my legislators, and I am a member of a right-to-life organization. (Not that it makes a bit of difference, but I feel like I'm doing something to support the cause.) I also contribute to a crisis-pregnancy center that supplies baby items and shelter for moms who need them.

In addition, I'm in favor of free birth control, education and access to health care for all women, especially those who can't afford these things. I just can't support abortion in any way, shape or form except in cases where the mother's life is truly in danger. As for severely malformed infants...I had a daughter with anencephaly 35 years ago, and I carried her to term even after finding out at 5 months' gestation. I couldn't have had an abortion even knowing she wouldn't live more than a few hours after birth. But that's just me; I don't expect anyone else to agree with my course of action (or INaction) and I feel nothing but compassion for women who have to make that decision. I simply believe that abortion should be VERY rare, and I don't want to pay for it.

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
1 hour ago, VivaLasViejas said:

In my state (Oregon) it does. We pay for a system that covers free abortions for all who want one, including undocumented immigrants. I hate that my tax money is going toward something I'm morally opposed to, but it's not like I can claim the status of conscientious objector. It doesn't work that way. But I pay taxes under protest, and I write my legislators, and I am a member of a right-to-life organization. (Not that it makes a bit of difference, but I feel like I'm doing something to support the cause.) I also contribute to a crisis-pregnancy center that supplies baby items and shelter for moms who need them.

In addition, I'm in favor of free birth control, education and access to health care for all women, especially those who can't afford these things. I just can't support abortion in any way, shape or form except in cases where the mother's life is truly in danger. As for severely malformed infants...I had a daughter with anencephaly 35 years ago, and I carried her to term even after finding out at 5 months' gestation. I couldn't have had an abortion even knowing she wouldn't live more than a few hours after birth. But that's just me; I don't expect anyone else to agree with my course of action (or INaction) and I feel nothing but compassion for women who have to make that decision. I simply believe that abortion should be VERY rare, and I don't want to pay for it.

Please cite your source.

You are a conscientious objector - you do not have have abortions. Pregnancy and baby supplies are only the smallest drop of what you need to raise a child.

You chose that. Some people cannot live with their child dying inside them while other people are happily congratulating them. Some people would rather have an early delivery to have the chance to hold the child while alive.

but once again

Making abortions illegal does nothing to decrease the rates of abortion. Refusing to pay for them does nothing to decrease the rates of abortion. Providing education, support, living wages, free healthcare, free childcare, 1 year paid maternity leave, and other social programs will help decrease the rates of abortion.

All making it illegal does is harm women to punish them for seeking an abortion.

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Quote

Providing education, support, living wages, free healthcare, free childcare, 1 year paid maternity leave, and other social programs will help decrease the rates of abortion.

I think this is something that people on both sides of the women's health care debate can agree on. Can I take it a step further and note that we have to bring men to account for their actions? Social programs are great, but what about the individual who helped generate the fetus? The idea of a woman "getting herself " pregnant is what is making this whole debate so punitive towards the healthcare seeker.

As a society, as individual mothers of sons, we have to teach men to be responsible for their bodies and their actions. If they choose to have sex with a woman who they dont want to have children with, they should use all the methods of birth control that involved parties can agree on. Men should have a conversation with prospective sexual partners- find out what she would choose if she should get pregnant, so youre not surprised when she makes her choice in case of pregnancy. In case an accident should happen, that man should be taught to know his responsibility and offer the physical, emotional and financial care needed. They need to be taught that the ultimate decision rests with the woman once a pregnancy is established ( which is why they should take the steps BEFORE sex to retain some control over the outcome).

We need to stop blaming women for rape, stop being so lenient about the punishment for men. Start teaching men about respecting themselves first as humans, then teach them to recognize woman as humans, too. Teach men that sex isnt owed to them, and just as they wouldn't want a man to hold them down unwillingly and penetrate them - hey, neither do we!

I dont know why, but i am always shocked and saddened by how hard we are on women as a society, and especially upset by how hard women are towards each other. A recent instance was watching the governor of Alabama sign her anti- choice bill.

If the world flipped upside down tomorrow, and men were the ones who got pregnant, i truly believe abortion would be free or low cost and available in every state.

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.

I like the suggestion that at puberty, every boy bank's their sperm and get a vasectomy. Then if they want to have children later, he and his partner can defrost what they need. Poof, problem solved.

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Specializes in NICU.
1 hour ago, TAKOO01 said:

“If the world flipped upside down tomorrow, and men were the ones who got pregnant, i truly believe abortion would be free or low cost and available in every state. “

I’ll bet on that!

This is not just a pro-life pro-choice issue. It’s also another mean for men to keep control and power over women, and for the poor to stay forever poor.

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I don't put my views out on Facebook as that will start a comment and insult war I want no part of. I always find it interesting, many of my "always Republican" friends argue for smaller government and less government regulations - except where marriage and abortion/medical decisions are concerned...in those instances government should be small enough to fit in our homes and provider's offices. I can't wrap my head around that logic as it's so inconsistent. I don't think it's at all, about abortion...rather, about controlling women. If it were about abortion and sanctity of life then it would address all "clumps of cells" (a la IVF embryos), the death penalty would be overturned, and social programs would be a priority.

I was raised and consider myself Catholic...which should convey that I don't believe abortion is the answer - at least not to me. I would not choose that for me, based on every circumstance I've experienced so far in my life. That's the thing though - my religious beliefs begin and end with me (and my direct family). I don't believe my beliefs should be legislated into state or federal laws.

While I can't imagine a circumstance I would choose to terminate a pregnancy, I can't begin to make that decision for someone else. Morally right or wrong - not my place to judge. However, it should be as safe as possible. Legislating restrictions worries me - as it's a slippery slope to start down. What about the women who have incomplete or missed miscarriages? Intrauterine fetal demise? What about a situation that doesn't meet "acceptable" criteria? I don't believe it's the place of the state to make that decision that should be made by a woman and their provider.

But if we insist on going down this road, legislating the sanctity of life...then there are other topics we need to address:
1. Access to quality and affordable of health care. Coverage not tied to a specific job. Whether it be single payer or forcing everyone to purchase insurance through Obamacare style exchanges which would make the exchanges competitive and force comprehensive coverage options (employers could retain their credit/tax write off by contributing to an employee's exchange account).
2. Access to and quality of education.
3. Assistance for those who cannot or cannot sufficiently provide for their families (housing, food, etc).
4. If we're calling a 6 week gestation a "human" then so are the convicts sentenced to die - so we need to stop executing prisoners.
5. Better resources to help people parent and learn to parent.
6. Better solution to the foster care / state custody system.

That's just the start. If it's really about life, and not about at best, birth, or at worst, controlling women - then we need to do more to address all of these issues that comprise life.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
56 minutes ago, FurBabyMom said:

I don't put my views out on Facebook as that will start a comment and insult war I want no part of. I always find it interesting, many of my "always Republican" friends argue for smaller government and less government regulations - except where marriage and abortion/medical decisions are concerned...in those instances government should be small enough to fit in our homes and provider's offices. I can't wrap my head around that logic as it's so inconsistent. I don't think it's at all, about abortion...rather, about controlling women. If it were about abortion and sanctity of life then it would address all "clumps of cells" (a la IVF embryos), the death penalty would be overturned, and social programs would be a priority.

I was raised and consider myself Catholic...which should convey that I don't believe abortion is the answer - at least not to me. I would not choose that for me, based on every circumstance I've experienced so far in my life. That's the thing though - my religious beliefs begin and end with me (and my direct family). I don't believe my beliefs should be legislated into state or federal laws.

While I can't imagine a circumstance I would choose to terminate a pregnancy, I can't begin to make that decision for someone else. Morally right or wrong - not my place to judge. However, it should be as safe as possible. Legislating restrictions worries me - as it's a slippery slope to start down. What about the women who have incomplete or missed miscarriages? Intrauterine fetal demise? What about a situation that doesn't meet "acceptable" criteria? I don't believe it's the place of the state to make that decision that should be made by a woman and their provider.

But if we insist on going down this road, legislating the sanctity of life...then there are other topics we need to address:
1. Access to quality and affordable of health care. Coverage not tied to a specific job. Whether it be single payer or forcing everyone to purchase insurance through Obamacare style exchanges which would make the exchanges competitive and force comprehensive coverage options (employers could retain their credit/tax write off by contributing to an employee's exchange account).
2. Access to and quality of education.
3. Assistance for those who cannot or cannot sufficiently provide for their families (housing, food, etc).
4. If we're calling a 6 week gestation a "human" then so are the convicts sentenced to die - so we need to stop executing prisoners.
5. Better resources to help people parent and learn to parent.
6. Better solution to the foster care / state custody system.

That's just the start. If it's really about life, and not about at best, birth, or at worst, controlling women - then we need to do more to address all of these issues that comprise life.

Oh, but that would require an increase in taxes and nobody seems willing to actually pay for them AFTER they are born. In my state, foster parents are paid $17 per day for a child without special needs. If the child needs extra medical or psychological care (and most of them do because of ADHD, depression PTSD, etc.) they get paid $22 daily. This is how we value them after they are born. Words are cheap.

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32 minutes ago, subee said:

Oh, but that would require an increase in taxes and nobody seems willing to actually pay for them AFTER they are born. In my state, foster parents are paid $17 per day for a child without special needs. If the child needs extra medical or psychological care (and most of them do because of ADHD, depression PTSD, etc.) they get paid $22 daily. This is how we value them after they are born. Words are cheap.

I understand completely and yes, taxes would have to be increased, specifically on people who have greater financial means. It works everywhere else...

I have multiple friends who are fostering so I'm aware of the state of "assistance" for families caring for those kids. It's actually something I'm considering myself once I finish this degree...

Another thing we'd have to address is parental leave and childcare in general. Cause what we have isn't the answer (in some ways this has improved or is trending better...but...not great).

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Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.
On 5/17/2019 at 9:08 PM, dream'n said:

My personal opinion only; I dislike the 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' tag. I'm not one or the other. To me abortion is not a black or white issue, it is in the gray zone. I support choice in early pregnancy and for other particular reasons, but I don't support partial-birth abortion done after fetal viability. I haven't personally had an abortion, but know of many close family and friends that have and I love them dearly. I am not in their shoes and I am supportive of them and their decisions. There was a time in my life when abortion would have been my choice if I had found myself pregnant.

I really dislike that this is such a political issue. I know strong 'pro-lifers' that will only vote Republican due to abortion and not the candidate running, and at the same time I have seen this on the Democrat side with those that are 'pro-choice'. With either group, you can't discuss any other issue; not the environment, healthcare, education, foreign policy because it's all about abortion.

Most women who abort late-term do so because of severe fetal anomalies or their life is at risk. The vast majority if abortions occur within the first trimester.

Late-term abortion should stay legal and these old white men need to stay out of women's uteri.

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