Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
2 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

I said that religions have generated wars...many of them. But you are confusing religious liturgy with Judeo-Christian morality. They are not the same because Jews have one set of beliefs that vary from Roman Catholics which varies from Protestants.

The Ingroup/outgroup dynamic proves my point. Killing your rival clan is not apart of JC morality. The Mayans and Olmecs even performed human sacrifices....definitely not JC approved.

JC has ingroup/outgroup just as much as any others. I'm really not clear what you are arguing, unless you are purposefully trying to say that if you are not christian or jewish, there's no way you could be moral and that JC is the only arbiter of what is wrong, that without that, everyone would be serial killers.

Societal rules are very different than morals and ethics.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care.
2 hours ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

That's a bit of a strawman argument. Bacteria does not grow into a sentient being whereas a blastocyte develops into a human.

And yes, some bacteria should be protected, otherwise, you get yeast infections, C-diff, and acne.

That's actually exactly my point, we define what life is sacred by it's sentience. In religious terms, the presence of a 'soul' is typically measured by the extent of sentience.

A sentient being shouldn't be subjected to suffering, and birth control is one way we prevent sentient beings from enduring avoidable suffering. The dividing line between birth control and murder should be the dividing line between non-sentience and sentience, and while meiosis is a significant event as a biological process it isn't a defining moment in emergence of sentience.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
23 minutes ago, LilPeanut said:

JC has ingroup/outgroup just as much as any others. I'm really not clear what you are arguing, unless you are purposefully trying to say that if you are not christian or jewish, there's no way you could be moral and that JC is the only arbiter of what is wrong, that without that, everyone would be serial killers.

Societal rules are very different than morals and ethics.

Not at all, other cultures have morality but there are variances. JC is unique in its value of the human as an individual and that all humans are equal. Equality among sexes definitely doesn’t go with a lot of other cultures for example. What I am saying is that western culture is a product, in part, of JC morality.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
4 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

Not at all, other cultures have morality but there are variances. JC is unique in its value of the human as an individual and that all humans are equal. Equality among sexes definitely doesn’t go with a lot of other cultures for example. What I am saying is that western culture is a product, in part, of JC morality.

I disagree. I think many other cultures valued individuals and equality of women definitely isn't a JC value, and JC values does not believe that all humans are equal. The bible literally gives instructions for keeping slaves and murdering and subjugating women.

6
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 5/25/2019 at 5:09 PM, LilPeanut said:

Taxpayer money is not used for abortions.

I will repeat this for those in the back who are slow: outlawing abortions does not decrease rates of abortions, it only increases the risk the woman will die from it.

Social programs to care for children and their mothers is what will decrease abortions.

If your goal is to decrease the number of abortions, this is not the way to do it, it just increases the likelihood that a woman will die too. How prolife is that?

Nice B.S. statement for those who can’t do their own research. And yes, for most abortions, it’s tax payer’s money paying for it. Just look up how much money the government has already given to PPH.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 5/25/2019 at 5:25 PM, MunoRN said:

So do you believe bacteria should be protected? Are you opposed to the use of antibiotics? Hand washing? Laundering clothing?

And no tax money goes to fund abortions.

Plenty of tax money goes towards abortion. Don’t be lazy, just look it up. Just look up Planned Parenthood’s insane amount of money received from federal and local tax money.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
2 minutes ago, DancRN said:

Nice B.S. statement for those who can’t do their own research. And yes, for most abortions, it’s tax payer’s money paying for it. Just look up how much money the government has already given to PPH.

Please, provide your citations refuting my statements. Abortions are like 1% of what planned parenthood does, and the money doesn't go towards abortions. You are incorrect/misinformed.

7
Up Vote Up Vote ×
9 minutes ago, LilPeanut said:

I disagree. I think many other cultures valued individuals and equality of women definitely isn't a JC value, and JC values does not believe that all humans are equal. The bible literally gives instructions for keeping slaves and murdering and subjugating women.

No...it doesn’t. The Hebrew word loosely translated as slave is actually meant as servant. Hebrews did not practice slavery as what is known from American slavery. There was no social safety net for the poor during those times so the poor would become indentured servants. The “master” had a responsibility to provide for the welfare of the servant and his/her family. The 10th commandment directs that “masters” were to give servants a day of rest on the sabbath. You have to read that text with knowledge of the time and culture. As for women...name one culture other than western that treats men and women as equals. Mind you that Europe counts as western culture. Women were valued in the Bible and equal...Honor thy Father and Mother...if women had no status then such a commandment would read just to honor thy father. Men are only allowed to take one wife...again this shows value...more is not better. The man was the head of the family because he was the protector and provider not the subjugator of the family unit.

Maybe I’m wrong but I get the impression that you fundamentally do not like either religion or JC religion in particular. You don’t have to be religious or even like religion to have been culturally influenced by it. Religion is a powerful social construct...or at least it used to be which would explain the relative degradation of society. Truthfully I don’t like “religion” but I am faithful...very different concepts. Although I don’t like religion I recognize that I, and my surrounding society, have been influenced by it. Pursuing the study of early philosophy such as Maimonides and Thomas Aquinus and of Greek Teleology provides insight on our development as a unique culture.

Don’t take my word for any of this...there are plenty of books on the topic. The idea is not to put others down but to explain the West’s unique successes and how our culture is different and the cultural influences that factor into those differences.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
6 minutes ago, DancRN said:

Plenty of tax money goes towards abortion. Don’t be lazy, just look it up. Just look up Planned Parenthood’s insane amount of money received from federal and local tax money.

https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-funding-abortion-under-medicaid

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2015/10/02/are-american-taxpayers-paying-for-abortion/#4bcbe3286a4b

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
1 minute ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

No...it doesn’t. The Hebrew word loosely translated as slave is actually meant as servant. Hebrews did not practice slavery as what is known from American slavery. There was no social safety net for the poor during those times so the poor would become indentured servants. The “master” had a responsibility to provide for the welfare of the servant and his/her family. The 10th commandment directs that “masters” were to give servants a day of rest on the sabbath. You have to read that text with knowledge of the time and culture. As for women...name one culture other than western that treats men and women as equals. Mind you that Europe counts as western culture. Women were valued in the Bible and equal...Honor thy Father and Mother...if women had no status then such a commandment would read just to honor thy father. Men are only allowed to take one wife...again this shows value...more is not better. The man was the head of the family because he was the protector and provider not the subjugator of the family unit.

Maybe I’m wrong but I get the impression that you fundamentally do not like either religion or JC religion in particular. You don’t have to be religious or even like religion to have been culturally influenced by it. Religion is a powerful social construct...or at least it used to be which would explain the relative degradation of society. Truthfully I don’t like “religion” but I am faithful...very different concepts. Although I don’t like religion I recognize that I, and my surrounding society, have been influenced by it. Pursuing the study of early philosophy such as Maimonides and Thomas Aquinus and of Greek Teleology provides insight on our development as a unique culture.

Don’t take my word for any of this...there are plenty of books on the topic. The idea is not to put others down but to explain the West’s unique successes and how our culture is different and the cultural influences that factor into those differences.

Prior to exposure to JC values and religion, norse and celtic societies gave women equal rights. Many native american communities were matriarchal.

I do not like religion as a rule but I specifically don't like people claiming morality comes from religion, rather than religion being made up to support morality.

I find that incredibly racist, bigoted and judgmental that you assume no one can be moral or ethical without the background of religion.

8
Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment