Why is it "legal" for patient to decline male nurses?

[carti]

I don't know if that is the right word I'm looking for. Why is it considered "ok" and acceptable for patients to decline male nurses caring for them or even just for procedures such as putting in a Foley?

Background: I'm a senior nursing student (male) and I've had about 3-4 patients my entire nursing school career who refused to have a male nurse come in. For example, today at clinicals, I had a female patient with an order for a Foley before discharge, and she told my preceptor for me to leave the room. Another example, during my 2nd semester, I experienced 2 different occasions where the patient refused to have any care by a male whatsoever.

I feel like that is literally like a White couple coming into a restaurant and refusing service from a Black/Latino server and requesting a white server.

Why can't the hospital just say, " If you don't want a male nurses, then leave?" I think it's crazy that in the year 2019, no one bats an eye if a patient refuses care by a male nurse, and the automatic response is " Don't worry! As a male nurse you have to get used to it! ? "

[carti, BSN, RN]

4 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Yes they can and unless you've been sexually assaulted/abused you really aren't qualified to challenge the logic. Again, when it comes to these kind of issues, whether you like it or not it, we defer to the patient because it's not about us.

"It's ok to be racist/sexist to someone from the opposite race/sex somehow caused you any problems"

This is your logic. I can't argue with this.

[carti, BSN, RN]

9 minutes ago, Emergent said:

I am grown up. I am mature enough to avoid saying "grow up!" to someone with whom I disagree on a message board.

How old are you, young man?

23. Usually the older crowd have backwards way of thinking, as it's been throughout the entire U.S. History so I can see where people who say " Deal with it" come from.

[Wuzzie]

5 minutes ago, Cowboy96 said:

"It's ok to be racist/sexist to someone from the opposite race/sex somehow caused you any problems"

This is your logic. I can't argue with this.

But it isn't being sexist at all. I'm not sure that word means what you think it means. People with abuse history have legitimate fears and psychological damage associated with that abuse. I'm baffled that you don't seem to understand this or worse you just won't accept it because it doesn't fit your agenda. We have told you repeatedly that in the realm of nursing we must be patient focused which seems to be entirely impossible for you to do as evidenced by this and other posts of yours. It isn't about you and it never will be. If you can't accept this perhaps you should reconsider your short term plans and just focus on medical school. Pathology or radiology may be an excellent fit for you as you won't have to deal with patients and their fears.

[Sour Lemon]

7 minutes ago, Cowboy96 said:

"It's ok to be racist/sexist to someone from the opposite race/sex somehow caused you any problems"

Patients don't even need a past problem. They can request x, y, or z "just because". I'm not saying it's logical, but patients do and think a LOT of illogical things. I suspect things will gradually shift to your manner of thinking, but we're not there yet.

[Ughnamesarehard]

I'm a male, and I would not take offense to being asked to leave a room. I've heard of two different examples of why this might happen (although there are so many more reasons out there!). My girlfriend has told me she had refused a male nurse in the past because she was embarrassed because she thought he would not understand and would be horrified because she was on her period and needed a cath, and thought a female would be more empathetic. The other reason I have heard before was from my cousin who was unfortunately sexually assaulted; she had such anxiety from just being in a room with a man alone (elevators, bus, ect.) and the thought of letting any man come near her private areas was so unnerving that she had panic attacks and would cry. She goes out of her way to use a female physician for this reason, and I totally support her right to do that. Having a male nurse/physician perform such procedures may cause years of damage to the patient.

Like others have, it is not about you. They may have reasons you couldn't even imagine. I've heard of trauma survivors associating routine procedures with their past trauma, so I would be thankful that the patient had the courage to respectfully ask you to leave rather than break down on you, lash out, or (heaven forbid) associate a random act with that of an assault (inserting catheter taken as forced assault).

Also, this is a great opportunity to suck it up and be overly professional because you might just change a patient's mind, or make them feel just a bit more comfortable the next time they have a male nurse/ tech/ doctor, ect. If you huff and puff when they tell you to leave, and act angry, an assault victim will feel threatened, and full of anxiety, and your actions will reinforce their request. Conversely, if you are sincerely gentle, and say that you understand, and that it is not a problem, the patient will feel less anxiety. If you just happen to get a nasty patient who is doing it to be mean (remember-they could just be lashing out from trauma even if they're mean) then they will feel a bit silly for acting that way with such a professional caregiver, and most importantly you will not be reinforcing and "rewarding" their behavior. Lastly, as a six year inpatient phlebotomy veteran and future student nurse, I know sometimes you just have to brush it off if. If your going to a large city hospital, chances are you are going to have people yell at you, try to hit you, spit at you, ect. Being asked to leave a potentially stressful or touchy situation is not always a bad thing ;)

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

In addition to the other many thoughtful posts on this thread, please consider that in some cultures and religions the opposite sex is not supposed to make physical contact with individuals outside of marriage/family. For example, many Muslim females will request only female nurses. Orthodox Jewish men will only allow male nurses to care for them.

I am the only female NP in my clinic, so I do most of the women's healthcare as most women prefer a female provider for this. On the other hand, most urologists are male and male patients often prefer a male provider for their urogenital issues.

As a student, I suggest you keep your head down and do as you are told. Your goal is to get through nursing school, not try to be a social justice warrior.

[LikeTheDeadSea, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, Cowboy96 said:

"It's ok to be racist/sexist to someone from the opposite race/sex somehow caused you any problems"

These types of conversations are very upsetting to me and honestly make me feel like some trolling is happening.

I have an abuse history - there is no "sexist" aspect of me wanting a woman doctor/nurse when it comes to urology. It comes from the part of me that knows my PTSD will be triggered and I'll end up with anxiety/paranoia for weeks on end. I know all men are not like the abuser. I should not have to explain this when I request female staff. The blanket statements that are being inferred are just incorrect.

[MiladyMalarkey, ASN, BSN]

I understand your frustration, you have to be able to be open minded about theirs. Some are just not comfortable with it and we just have to accept.

I've had children, my OB was male, a fine doctor, and to boot I'm logical about this thinking this is like a mechanic working on a car type deal. Even then, as a person who was assaulted in the past, I still had moments where I'd have to talk myself down mentally when being examined by him. It was nothing against HIM, but my primal inclination was to flinch when he touched me or to want to bolt off that table so he couldn't touch me. In that moment of just being examined, when he touches me, I am reminded of those moments of powerlessness at the hands of another. It is not him and it is not his ability. All visits not being pregnant, I see the female NP and my mind is more at ease. I would see him if need be, but, if I feel more at ease with a female who is available, why would I not prefer her if it'll cause me less mental anguish? Just one of a million scenarios for you to consider, you don't know their reason for declining, we just have to respect it, whether or not it makes sense to us.

And as another person said some people are just illogical about their requests sometimes. However a female not wanting a male is not such an odd request me thinks. But I guess you could argue I have my own reasons for that.

[DowntheRiver]

You don't know what you don't know. Walk a mile as a woman and you might think differently.

Just move on and let them have the female nurse if they request if available. I'd gladly switch with a male co-worker in this situation.

ETA: I'd also suggest practicing as a nurse for a bit prior to generalizing this situation. Many people do not want students practicing on them. I'm ok with student nurses and residents but after a first year put my port in and did a wonky job I've been known to refuse students for advanced procedures.

As a preceptor, I notify patients that a student will be with me and may wish to participate in procedures. I ask for consent, and about 75% of the time they give it. So, it really isn't uncommon for a patient to refuse a student.

[Thanksforthedonuts, BSN, RN]

Honestly... I wouldn't want a male nurse inserting a foley either, and especially not a student. Heck no. Not only for me but I also know it would make my husband super uncomfortable. Now if a male nurse wanted to check my cervix during labor? I would be ok with that lol. It all depends on what is going on. I have a female midwife (CNM) as my provider and my husband nearly farted when a male gyno came in to check my cervix one time. Didn't bother me in the slightest but it's 5 years now and he's still ticked off lol.

As a RN I am totally ok with all students doing tasks on me since I'm a pretty go with the flow person buuuuut there comes a point where I know I don't want a student fuddling around in a sensitive area due to lack of expirience. You want to do a fundus rub? Or practice IVs on me? Sure. Practice inserting a foley? Nope.

[ShadowNurse]

Sorry bud, but as one of the "younger crowd" (27) I have to agree that patients can absolutely request no male nurses. Unless you've been sexually assaulted, you have zero idea what it means to be that helpless. And that is what it comes down to for the patient--the terror of feeling that vulnerable. I had a 20-year-old with a terminal degenerative neurological condition. By the time she arrived in our facility she was already bed-bound and blind. Just 6 months before she had been healthy. She requested no male nurses (though other male staff could come during the day while others were around). I thought this was such an easy request. Because seriously, try to imagine if you will the horror and fear of being 70 pounds, naked and unable to move or see while a man wipes and touches your genitals. Again, if you can't even imagine it, you need to grow some compassion ASAP before you become a nurse. You do know that our most disabled patients are at highest risk of sexual abuse, right?

[chilly01]

8 hours ago, Cowboy96 said:

This makes NO sense. SO if a patient was robbed by 3 Latino's at a parking lot outside of Walmart 3 years ago, they have the right to decline any care by a Latinx nurse? This makes no sense, and you logic is flawed.

You can give the same example for any race or ethnicity. NOT all Men/Race/Ethnicity/ Whatever are the same. Grow up.

Speaking from personal experience, there is absolutely nothing similar in being raped and being robbed. Until you have experienced rape or sexual abuse you should refrain from making statements like these.