I've been in two different hospitals in both my first and second semesters and come up against some ROUGH nurses who would rather do everything themselves than let me touch a thing.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that they are BUSY, they have a TO-DO list, they have patients that NEED meds, help, EVERYTHING. But, I'm here to help. I'm wearing these bright purple scrubs not because I like the color, but because I want to learn, I NEED to learn. I will take them to the bathroom, I will bathe them, I will take their vitals, just PLEASE let me.
When I say 80% of the nurses I've followed have done NOTHING with me I am not exaggerating. Why is this? Last week the nurse I was following wouldn't even let me take vitals, VITALS!! I am in my second semester of nursing school, I think I can handle that.
Anyway, I wanted to know whats up with that! I recognize that they are busy. I also recognize the few nurses that have taken me under their wing and shown me SO MUCH. I'm thankful for that, and grateful.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
Let's review
1. Teaching hospital/facility refers to medical student/intern/resident education NOT nursing education.
2. Students pay tuition, fees, and clinical fees to schools of nursing for the theory and clinical instructors/professors to teach you.
3. Schools do NOT pay hospitals and other facilities for clinical rotations. (Teaching facilities receive stipends to teach medical students/residents however)
4. Your nursing education is the responsibility of the school, student and nursing instructors. It is not the responsibility of the facility nurses to teach you, with the exception of clinical preceptor ships where a student is assigned to work 1:1 with a qualified staff nurse preceptor.
5. The facility staff nurse still has full legal and ethical responsibility for patient assessment, medication & treatment administration and total patient education & care. Students sometimes create double work when trying to take initiative and be "helpful".
6. It is noticed by all when students refuse to do basic nursing tasks (bed bath, ambulation, toileting, ADLs) or stand/sit around doing nothing, take over computer work stations & charts when the treatment team needs them, take over the break room with an abundance of unnecessary items, hide in the break room to study for an exam instead of on the floor observing/working/learning. Think of your clinical rotations as job interviews, you are noticed for your actions as well as your inaction. This is remembered when students apply for student nurse tech, externs, and new grad roles.
From a student perspective, I empathize with the nurses. Bravo for the nurses who actually manage to make the time for students. Really, they look busy enough without having me trail behind them for their shift.
I'm more frustrated with the fact that, at least with my school, we are required to have our CI with us when we perform procedures (Foleys, NG tubes, etc.). And that instructor has 10 students for the duration of our clinical. Between med passes and our CI checking our charting, he/she has limited time to actually be with the students, so there is very little that we can do, apart from ADLs.
Many of the students recently aren't interested in the things I do that take up most of my day like "CNA jobs"(as in 'no I'm not toileting that pt; that's a CNA job').
What is this about!? The majority of the students in my cohort do not behave this way -- there are a scant few that do and I want to shake them. Do they seriously not understand what being assigned a total care pt with NO CNA is and that it actually happens!?!?! It drives me up the wall!!!!
What is this about!? The majority of the students in my cohort do not behave this way -- there are a scant few that do and I want to shake them. Do they seriously not understand what being assigned a total care pt with NO CNA is and that it actually happens!?!?! It drives me up the wall!!!!
I like to tell them that there are NO CNA jobs only tasks that can be delegated to the CNA. In the end it is all the nurse's job.
What is this about!? The majority of the students in my cohort do not behave this way -- there are a scant few that do and I want to shake them. Do they seriously not understand what being assigned a total care pt with NO CNA is and that it actually happens!?!?! It drives me up the wall!!!!
My personal faves are the ones who declare that their future is in the ICU. They need their clinical time to practice SAVING LIVES, not doing meager ADLs! Yeah....ok.....with one tech for the whole unit, or no techs sometimes as the norm, they'll get PLENTY of time spent on "CNA work". With nurses pitching together to get the total cares T&P, hygiene, hourly I&O, etc done, sometimes with the help of a tech and sometimes not.
For some students, reality will be a RUDE awakening!
From a student perspective, I empathize with the nurses. Bravo for the nurses who actually manage to make the time for students. Really, they look busy enough without having me trail behind them for their shift.
I'm more frustrated with the fact that, at least with my school, we are required to have our CI with us when we perform procedures (Foleys, NG tubes, etc.). And that instructor has 10 students for the duration of our clinical. Between med passes and our CI checking our charting, he/she has limited time to actually be with the students, so there is very little that we can do, apart from ADLs.
And that is the root of the problem!! Too many students not enough CIs. My clinical group was 4 students per instructor. Of course this was in the dark ages when nursing schools were there to teach nurses not turn profits.
Pay the CIs a decent wage and you will have plenty of nurses, good nurses, willing to make nursing education their career.
And that is the root of the problem!! Too many students not enough CIs. My clinical group was 4 students per instructor. Of course this was in the dark ages when nursing schools were there to teach nurses not turn profits.
Pay the CIs a decent wage and you will have plenty of nurses, good nurses, willing to make nursing education their career.
Thank you! I was in school in the mid 70s, and I know my CIs never had more than 4-5 students, and were pretty much breathing down our necks the whole shift.
We were told in no uncertain terms that we were NOT to get in the way of the staff nurses, stay the heck out of the Nurse's station unless we were reviewing our patient's charts (the dark ages before computers lol), and to vacate said station immediately if they needed to chart.
We never felt it was the staff Nurse's duty to teach us. That's what our CI was for. If they had something interesting happening, we were invited to watch. We also did baths, assisted with meals, and other "menial" tasks that helped us build a solid foundation of how to observe and assess. I didn't start an IV or pass an NG until I actually started working, during orientation.
Some of the expectations in this thread made me wonder if I was hallucinating my memories of being a student. Glad to know I haven't been.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I lovedlovedloved being a CI. I also was a real hard-ass, as some of you might guess; the students hated me for a week or two or three but then began to realize, as they talked with their classmates who had other CIs, that they were learning way more than the others, that I was working harder than the other CIs to advocate for them, get them experiences, and fill in the gaps in their lectures. I also realized, when I attended faculty meetings, that none of the other CIs were the least bit concerned that their third semester (of four) students were only getting to give meds to one patient once or twice a semester (mine did all, every day, and yes, I watched them prepare them and quizzed them on every one), only took one patient per week (two for my kids), and didn't know med math at all ("They all passed pharmacology," was what they told me, dismissively.) We did 5-question med-math quizzes every day before postconference-- 5 questions, 5 minutes while I wolfed down my sandwich (they got lunch breaks). They each had an opportunity to prepare a 10-15 minute presentation on a topic of their choice, thus becoming the go-to folks on those topics for their peers and learning something about patient teaching in the bargain. Oh, I was a meany, I was.
And you know what? I never once had a clinical group that didn't embarrass me by taking me out to lunch in the last day and giving me a nice giftie of some sort-- a homemade lap quilt they all made a square for, a nifty sweatshirt, half a dozen pair of fancy socks :), nothing expensive, but sweet, and except for the socks which eventually wore out, I have a lot of them still. I got cards from some for a few years, and asked to write reference letters (I went 5 for 5 in scholarships for them one year).
When I left teaching for a CNS job, I got calls for about six years asking me if I would come to ABC or XYZ college program to teach nursing. I was always thrilled to get these calls, hopeful that I could afford to take one of those positions...and they were never able to offer me more than about 60% of what I was making, and I just could not afford to do it. How much was that? $45,000/year ... but prorated, because that didn't include summers.
So that's why I indulge my teaching jones here.
My second clinical instructor was just like you. Quite intimidating at first, but she turned out to be pretty much everyone's favorite instructor (mine too!) and was asked to be the keynote speaker at our pinning. Sadly, she left our school right after we graduated.
I definitely agree with the salary thing. That's why I have no desire to go beyond part-time adjunct and move into education full time- the pay cut is absolutely atrocious and a disservice to those willing to teach.
I came across this as well. When I was rotating some nurses came off as very hostile. I think it's because they are so busy they don't have time for you. As a student your paying money to learn but keep in mind they are so busy that they forget this fact. Some just don't care.
Once again (how hard is this to understand), yes, the students are paying to attend nursing school. But that relationship is with their school, not the staff nurses at the hospital at which they do clinicals. You're right, the staff nurses don't care that you're "paying money to learn" -- that has nothing to do with them. They didn't ask to have students assigned, and they get no compensation for having students dumped on them.
What I don't understand is why all these frustrated students aren't angry at their schools for providing such poor learning experiences.
I definitely agree with the salary thing. That's why I have no desire to go beyond part-time adjunct and move into education full time- the pay cut is absolutely atrocious and a disservice to those willing to teach.
Lol and to make it worse these institutions are actually convincing, or threatening from what I hear, professors to get their DNP for no extra compensation. Its crazy.
But we are there to 'help'- we are there to learn, and help. Although we can't complete tasks flawlessly like the nurses, I assure you there are tasks that can be done by the bottom-feeding nursing students, I swear...
I understand what patient acuity is, and I understand my abilities as a student. I have made myself more than available, and offer as much as I can. I understand that I do not have the clinical skills the nurse does, but I am willing to learn. And I have made that abundantly clear. I know I get in the way, but I know I shouldn't be treated like grandma's Chihuahua that won't stop bothering her. I'm in school and learning, I want to learn and am eager to learn.
It's such a shame the fervency and excitement of nursing students gets doused at the earliest moment in the hospital. I've heard about the nurse-eat-nurse environment and have refused to accept it, but after stepping foot into the hospital, I can assuredly say, I SEE IT!
I haven't read all the responses but nursing students are not there to help the staff nurses. And they aren't much of a help anyway. They get in the way, they slow us down, they interrupt real issues with inconsequential things. The staff nurses have other patients in addition to the patient the student is assigned to and the student, quite often, has no idea what else the staff nurse has going on. If her other patient is circling the drain, the last thing she needs is a student up her rear telling her that her patient's temp is 99.1 but the computer won't let her chart that. A) 99.1 is not a fever and B) we chart temperatures in Celsius here, who told you to change the thermometer to Fahrenheit? That's not a help, it's a hindrance. The responsibility to educate nursing students lies with the clinical instructor. It is not the staff nurses' job. And "teaching hospital" refers to the education of medical students/physicians. It means nothing as far as nursing education goes.
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Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN
5,047 Posts
That is all.