I've been in two different hospitals in both my first and second semesters and come up against some ROUGH nurses who would rather do everything themselves than let me touch a thing.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that they are BUSY, they have a TO-DO list, they have patients that NEED meds, help, EVERYTHING. But, I'm here to help. I'm wearing these bright purple scrubs not because I like the color, but because I want to learn, I NEED to learn. I will take them to the bathroom, I will bathe them, I will take their vitals, just PLEASE let me.
When I say 80% of the nurses I've followed have done NOTHING with me I am not exaggerating. Why is this? Last week the nurse I was following wouldn't even let me take vitals, VITALS!! I am in my second semester of nursing school, I think I can handle that.
Anyway, I wanted to know whats up with that! I recognize that they are busy. I also recognize the few nurses that have taken me under their wing and shown me SO MUCH. I'm thankful for that, and grateful.
Like a pp stated, students pay the school for an education. The school should be the ones teaching them. Who knows what bad habits you might pick up from a floor nurse. The nurse might know it's wrong and when not to cut corners, but you won't. The floor nurses should accommodate you and be helpful, but they shouldn't be tasked with teaching students unless they sign an agreement to be a preceptor (and the school should have guidelines on who it eligible to do that). Basically, it's all the school's responsibility.
I'm in fourth semester of an ADN program and had the same problem my first two semesters. When I started third semester, I was determined to matter to the nursing staff. When I would get the obligatory eye roll by the floor nurses when we would show up for handoffs, I would smile and tell the nurse that she wouldn't have to worry about any call lights while I was on the floor and that I would be passing meds to such and such patients with my instructor.
After her assessments, I still had to go and do a head to toe assessment behind her and I would write everything down for her and pass her my report at the first opportunity... Even though she had just gotten her own. It took about two weeks and there were a couple of issues the patients pressed the lights for that I had to immediately call them in, but we ended up working well together. I knew I had made the grade when the nurse passed me on my last clinical day and told me to get a dressing change kit and take care of the change while she put in a new IV access.
No you didn't say that exactly but you did say that you were paying for an education (as did other posters) and the implication is that because you are paying tuition we, as staff nurses, are responsible for providing you that education in the clinical setting. In reality you should primarily be taught by your school's clinical educators not the floor nurses. The schools that just dump their students on the floor with a cell number for the CI or have too many students for the CI to handle are the ONLY ones to blame. That's who you should be complaining to. It isn't an us vs. them situation because we aren't the problem. By and large the floor staff does the best they can in an impossible situation where students are involved. It is the school's and the student's responsibility to make clinicals as educational as possible NOT the nursing staff.
With the exception of my post that you quoted already, here are the other replies I have added to this conversation. I see no where in which I said that I felt that because I am paying for my education that the hospital staff owes me anything.
What I actually see is agreement with your last sentence in the above quoted post.
I had started to reply earlier but lost my post.
I'm halfway through my program. I've been assigned to nurses who either didn't like me or just didn't like having a student. The situation will be whatever you make it. You can pout and be upset about it. Or you can introduce yourself, ask to help, stay out of their way and suck up every ounce of information you can.
I don't know how your clinical is run but in mine, I'm assigned patients (which assigns me to nurses). I do whatever I can for them all day. That does not stop me from helping other staff (nurses, aides, heck even housekeeping!) , fellow students, answering call bells, asking questions. I have won over a few nurses who were initially cold toward me.
If you are leaning against a wall for hours I'm going to hazard a guess that the problem is not the staff, but you.
There is ALWAYS something to do. ALWAYS.
If the issue is that school instuctor's are allowed to drop their students off and leave them to fend for themselves, the problem is not entirely the students or the schools, it's the states BON and the rules set for education of nursing staff.
I have no idea what other states do but I know in my state that I can not be on hospital grounds acting in the capacity of a student without my instructor on the floor. The only exception to this is during our senior preceptorship.
With the exception of my post that you quoted already, here are the other replies I have added to this conversation. I see no where in which I said that I felt that because I am paying for my education that the hospital staff owes me anything.
What I actually see is agreement with your last sentence in the above quoted post.
If the issue is that school instuctor's are allowed to drop their students off and leave them to fend for themselves, the problem is not entirely the students or the schools, it's the states BON and the rules set for education of nursing staff.
I have no idea what other states do but I know in my state that I can not be on hospital grounds acting in the capacity of a student without my instructor on the floor. The only exception to this is during our senior preceptorship.
I get what you're saying but I stand by my opinion. It has been mentioned several times by several posters that the floor nurses should not be the least bit put out by having a student assigned to them at the last minute because after all the students are PAYING for their education. This concept is irrelevant and shouldn't even have been mentioned in the context of this thread. The nurses aren't getting paid. The school is. And the schools fob off their responsibility for clinical education on the hospital staff. We repeatedly see threads posted by students complaining that the nurses they are assigned to aren't doing enough to provide them the clinical experience they desire and have paid for. So yes, maybe you get it but there are many here that don't so it bears repeating. Your beef should be with the school not the floor nurses not the BON but the school!
For the record, I would LOVE to be a clinical instructor and have I the chops to do it. But I can't. Want to know why? The pay is so ridiculously crappy I can't afford to do it. So maybe these schools should start paying better so they would have more CIs so this problem wouldn't even exist.
For the record, I would LOVE to be a clinical instructor and have I the chops to do it. But I can't. Want to know why? The pay is so ridiculously crappy I can't afford to do it. So maybe these schools should start paying better so they would have more CIs so this problem wouldn't even exist.
I lovedlovedloved being a CI. I also was a real hard-ass, as some of you might guess; the students hated me for a week or two or three but then began to realize, as they talked with their classmates who had other CIs, that they were learning way more than the others, that I was working harder than the other CIs to advocate for them, get them experiences, and fill in the gaps in their lectures. I also realized, when I attended faculty meetings, that none of the other CIs were the least bit concerned that their third semester (of four) students were only getting to give meds to one patient once or twice a semester (mine did all, every day, and yes, I watched them prepare them and quizzed them on every one), only took one patient per week (two for my kids), and didn't know med math at all ("They all passed pharmacology," was what they told me, dismissively.) We did 5-question med-math quizzes every day before postconference-- 5 questions, 5 minutes while I wolfed down my sandwich (they got lunch breaks). They each had an opportunity to prepare a 10-15 minute presentation on a topic of their choice, thus becoming the go-to folks on those topics for their peers and learning something about patient teaching in the bargain. Oh, I was a meany, I was.
And you know what? I never once had a clinical group that didn't embarrass me by taking me out to lunch in the last day and giving me a nice giftie of some sort-- a homemade lap quilt they all made a square for, a nifty sweatshirt, half a dozen pair of fancy socks :), nothing expensive, but sweet, and except for the socks which eventually wore out, I have a lot of them still. I got cards from some for a few years, and asked to write reference letters (I went 5 for 5 in scholarships for them one year).
When I left teaching for a CNS job, I got calls for about six years asking me if I would come to ABC or XYZ college program to teach nursing. I was always thrilled to get these calls, hopeful that I could afford to take one of those positions...and they were never able to offer me more than about 60% of what I was making, and I just could not afford to do it. How much was that? $45,000/year ... but prorated, because that didn't include summers.
I came across this as well. When I was rotating some nurses came off as very hostile. I think it's because they are so busy they don't have time for you. As a student your paying money to learn but keep in mind they are so busy that they forget this fact. Some just don't care. Also it takes time to show someone how to do something and it's sometimes quicker to just do it yourself. Also your not technically an employee so your not being paid and some may feel that this isn't expected of you. Although it depends on the school and your experiences, don't expect much learning. Try to get a hospital job while your in school so you can learn at least some of the basics.
I lovedlovedloved being a CI. I also was a real hard-ass, as some of you might guess; the students hated me for a week or two or three but then began to realize, as they talked with their classmates who had other CIs, that they were learning way more than the others, that I was working harder than the other CIs to advocate for them, get them experiences, and fill in the gaps in their lectures. I also realized, when I attended faculty meetings, that none of the other CIs were the least bit concerned that their third semester (of four) students were only getting to give meds to one patient once or twice a semester (mine did all, every day, and yes, I watched them prepare them and quizzed them on every one), only took one patient per week (two for my kids), and didn't know med math at all ("They all passed pharmacology," was what they told me, dismissively.) We did 5-question med-math quizzes every day before postconference-- 5 questions, 5 minutes while I wolfed down my sandwich (they got lunch breaks). They each had an opportunity to prepare a 10-15 minute presentation on a topic of their choice, thus becoming the go-to folks on those topics for their peers and learning something about patient teaching in the bargain. Oh, I was a meany, I was.
I think you are my soul mate!!! I am often described as having a hard, crispy shell with a soft nougat center. I love pushing students. Challenging them. The best part of my day is when the light goes on in their eyes when they've finally got it and they did it themselves. Pure joy for me.
I came across this as well. When I was rotating some nurses came off as very hostile. I think it's because they are so busy they don't have time for you. As a student your paying money to learn but keep in mind they are so busy that they forget this fact. Some just don't care.
Ummm, did you read *any* of the responses where it was explained why the fact that you are paying your *school* means nothing to the floor nurses. They receive none of the money you are paying.
You get what you pay for. I wish the educational institutions understood this. Yes there are excellent instructors working now, but there are also many who are subpar.
GrnTea is a perfect example of what students are missing out on because schools aren't willing to pay what nursing instructors like her are worth. When you can make so much more in other areas of nursing it is difficult if not downright impossible to take such a financial hit to teach.
GrnTea and others in your situation, I wish you were able to find employment as instructors that paid what you are worth because the students are really missing out.
Ummm, did you read *any* of the responses where it was explained why the fact that you are paying your *school* means nothing to the floor nurses. They receive none of the money you are paying.
Clearly not.
I have precepted new grads, hired for my unit (or hired to float). I have had students (still in school) assigned to my patients, with varying degrees of success. Some of them were bright, able...and willing. Some were bright....and unwilling. Some were dumb as a brick, and in those cases, I did my best (how did they get INTO the program??).
MOST of the time, the CI was also on the floor, but busy with this one or that one and hence the need to have the students spend more of their time with me than with the CI. But you can bet your bootstraps if I had me an idiot....or someone who SEEMED to be capable but was lazy...it got back to that CI
But I was paid not one thin dime. The CIs, I happen to know, were paid less than ME when it came down to it: I got overtime pay, they did not. Faculty usually AREN'T paid what they are worth, but hey, if they are ON the job....it IS their job.....not mine. MOST of the time, too, it wasn't a big issue, as the CIs by and large were happy to have the floor nurses doing whatever they could to ease the burden of 8-10 students per instructor for a clinical day. I considered a pathway towards teaching.....thought I'd enjoy being a CI at some point. Once I learned the financial reality of it, though, no way.
Students, if you're missing out on something, tell your CI. Tell the Dean. Do not complain that the nurses (who are NOT NOT NOT being paid to teach you a blessed thing!) aren't doing ENOUGH for you.
I said it before, will say it again, that I really did like having students. And some of you (collective you, students) were NOT worth the trouble involved. But still....I am not unlike most of us (collective us, nurses) who want you to succeed, and give what we can towards that goal. But don't ask for more than we want to give, and complain that what we did give was insufficient: it makes you ungrateful, and us resentful.
NICUmiiki, DNP, NP
1,775 Posts
Like a pp stated, students pay the school for an education. The school should be the ones teaching them. Who knows what bad habits you might pick up from a floor nurse. The nurse might know it's wrong and when not to cut corners, but you won't. The floor nurses should accommodate you and be helpful, but they shouldn't be tasked with teaching students unless they sign an agreement to be a preceptor (and the school should have guidelines on who it eligible to do that). Basically, it's all the school's responsibility.