Why Do We Tolerate This?

Nurses Men

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You know, sometimes things have a hidden context. Sometimes, that context can be kind of ugly. When I see that, it causes me to wonder why we allow these things to continue. Hence, this thread.

Recently, two threads on this board have given me pause for the hidden context they contained. Both have planted in my mind the question "Why are we, as male nurses, tolerating this?" I have a few ideas of my own, but what are your thoughts?

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96928

This is the first thread, and it appeared in the male nursing forum under the title "Men's sexualality (sic) in Nursing." In this thread, the original poster questioned whether we, as men, were really able to put our libidos aside long enough to do an exam/procedure on a female patient without looking at her "private parts" in "that" way. Essentially, she suggested that we would be unable to do so. As I read the original post, I wondered whether sparks would fly. Not because I wasn't sure whether any of us would take offense to the thread, but because I figured that post would be rapidly reported, and yanked off the board. It wasn't and no ire was raised. Sparks didn't fly. No one even poked fun at the notion that we didn't have anything better to do than leer at this (or any) woman's "private parts." In fact, I felt the tone of most responses was almost apologetic. Why is that, I wonder? After all, didn't the post attack our professionalism as nurses? Didn't the OP suggest that we are nothing more than sexual beings, with no ability to control our baser instincts? Why did we tolerate this?

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90987

This is the second thread that gives me pause. In it, the original poster asks what is at least nominally a legitimate question as to whether or not men with copious chest hair should be required to wear t-shirts under their scrubs. When I saw the thread, I expected at least nod in the direction of infection control, or good grooming and the presentation of a professional appearance. Turns out that's not where that thread went at all. In fact, within the first page we were treated to some nurses' opinions about how sexy a hairy chest was (or wasn't), and how they wouldn't mind a male nurse with a little virile chest hair showing. And we all went along with the "joke." Again, why is that?

Now, before I am accused of being a humorless stick in the mud, let me say that I can see the humor in both of these threads. Both caused me to at least smile. At the same time, however, the first thread seemed to me to perpetuate the stereotypes of men in general, as well as men in nursing. We are unable to control our sexual urges, and should not be trusted to look at women without drooling. In the second, we are treated to what is essentially a reduction of male nurses to sexual objects. Why do we allow this, when our female counterparts won't tolerate the slightest hint of the same thing from men?

Consider what might have happened to both of these threads if they were put up about female, rather than male nurses.

In the first, suppose it was a woman who came up on the board stating that she didn't like her husband, the doctor, working with female nurses. After all, women became nurses just so they could hook a rich doc for a husband, and didn't care whether they stole him from someone else. I would guess that the OP would have been ripped a new one, and on very short order. However, boil both down, and the accusations are very similar. In both cases, the OP is simply suggesting that the nurse would be unable to control their baser instinct and act in a professional manner. In both cases, the OP would be suggesting that the nurse might behave in an immoral fashion because of that base instinct. However, in the actual thread, it seems to me that we are almost apologetic for the OP's perception of men. Why do we need to apologize for her prejudice?

In the second case, let's suppose that rather than chest hair, the OP had been concerned with large breasts on female nurses. Should they be required to wear a t-shirt, to prevent the scrub top from falling while the nurse is bent over, effectively "flashing" her chest at patients? Would that be an acceptable question? Moreover, suppose I posted a response to the question that said "Hey, I like big breasted women. If I had to be in the hospital, I wouldn't mind a flash or two, to occupy my mind." How long do you suppose it would be before I would be reminded (with righteous indignation) that the nurses were not there for my entertainment and titilation? How long before I was kicked to the curb for such vulgarity?

So, my question is this: Why do we, as male nurses, so readily tolerate that which would be intolerable if it came from us?

Kevin McHugh

As stated, this problem has been going on and on and on, for the entire length of my career, that is for thirty two years come June. It will never stop because males are males, and females are females. You know females are from Venus and males are from Mars. Sometimes I must say I enjoy it, the battle that is. Of course the times I enjoy it are mostly with my friends, (Male and Female) These are the times that the discussions are light and maybe even frivolous. We, my friends and I have fun with these gender based issues, but I'm sure we both gain insight into the heart of the issues we discuss, I know I do. It is when these issues become R-E-A-L in the workplace that I do not enjoy one moment of being stereo-typed, or flat out accused of any wrong doing. Comments such as, "He's just a male he wouldn't or couldn't understand our position." coming from females simply knocks me out. That statement assumes that all males are alike in every aspect of there lives, including but not limited to, gender relations with the opposite sex. It also assumes that we(males) are the horny toads, which flies in the face of my own personal experience. In my youth both as a male and as a nurse, it was more often than not that females, were piching my Butt, even grabbing my genitalia, thrusting there breasts in my face, and some of my bosses even went so far as to try to lure me to their homes for a little tryst, with the provision that if I didn't go there that they would cancel my assignment (I spent most of my career being an Agency Nurse) Just so you do not get the impression I'm crying here, I took advantage of many of those offers, both verbal and kinetic. Should I have repulsed all these offers of sexual delight? If I did I probably would have had to become a Monk. To give an example of my personality, when I met my wife, it took me six months to get up the nerve to ask her out on a date, in this day and age I believe that would have been covered under "If ya snooze, ya lose" In any case I am aware that many of us males, have had some of the same experiences. Being sixty and married happily is a very nice thing to be, because it allows me to be able to dismiss any accusations that have gender overtones, simply because I know in my heart that they are not true. You younger males will still have to deal with these issues awhile longer, but there is light at the end of the tunnel :Melody:

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

I really couldnt care less if a nurse is male or female as long as they know what they are doing, they care and they function well as part of a team.

We have all worked with lazy, uncaring nurses may they be male or female.

We have 2 male nurse on our ward and I think they are great but then I also think the rest of the staff is too

Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

Heck, I live with and work around so many paramedics, mostly males...and gee, why is the whole male/female thing any different than in nursing when it comes to this! They get flack for this all the time, and I simply say...why?!?!?! We are all professionals...and to be frankly honest...how many 'lovely' things do we see vs people or 'things' that aren't at their best...come on! I simply don't think 'that' way....I am not in there to 'get a date' or 'get turned on'..I am there to work and help!

We all go clinical! We have a job to do and we do it...that plain and simple! I don't 'see' a 'private part' as much as I see something that must be treated or helped...and I see it attached to a human being! Even in cases where the person (male or female) can be considered attractive...heck doesn't matter, I don't see that part..not at all (and have been shocked when other nurses come up to me an say "lucky you..they are gorgeous" and I am like "oh...they are...I didn't notice because I was treating a PATIENT". (honestly..same with when paramedics come in...they may be quite pleasing on the eye, and I will be the totally last to notice because one, I am in clinical mode, two...not interested in this stuff at work...I reserve that for my off time, and NOT with co-workers or patients..ewwww, that is just to "work" for me..I separate work and home big time!!!!!! And gee...I love my hubby and he is all I look at that way! ;) That is reserved for him alone! OKay okay I am still so smitten with him :)).

The probelm stems actually from insecurities of others, and something we all have to deal with in one way or another...and something we all must take on in our own individual style and mannor. I have had patients hit on me, and gently put them back in line...had co-workers..both male and female hit on me...same situation. I simply keep it "work"...oh and sometimes the phrase "well when I see one of those I think of how I get to put a tube in it" helps..LOL! Kinda hits the point of my mindset right there...I see things medically not sexually!!!!!

Specializes in PCU/Telemetry.

Well, to start, I just want to say that I am NOT a male, but I have many male friends who are nurses and they are by far just as capable, caring, and professional as the female nurses I know (and in some cases more so). They don't go crazy at the sight of a woman's private parts, just as I don't go crazy when I am taking care of a man. I read the posts that you mentioned and I was actually kind of embarassed for these women who posted, because it seemed as though they just didn't get it. Men do not go into nursing becuase they want to see naked women (nursing a sick person is not sexy, by the way) or because they weren't "smart eough" to be a doctor. MOST men go into nursing because they are caring people who want to help people (whether they are men or women).... Male nurses do not get the respect that they deserve.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Who ever said females don't have it rough.

Interesting how many females are answering a question addressed to the men.

Looks like Marie was right after all. Having a separate board for the male nurses have served to only divide, instead of offering a place for relating. :)

I've been working with guys in critical care for many years and a lot of good natured teasing goes on on both sides...as long as its not around patients, as long as everyone knows its kidding around and nobody takes offense...all is good. :)

One cannot wave a magic wand and say 'no sexuality'...men and women are sexual beings like it or not. The real issue is that of good manners and where to draw the line.

I've watched female nurses become totally innappropriate around their male coworkers and I agree...it isn't objected to as quickly by the guys OR the gals.

Not all guys, however, enjoy being a sex object and we need to keep this in mind.

A male acquaintance of mine was subjected to a group of nurses who openly breastfed in the common breakroom, with constant talk about their breasts, showing of engorgement, leaking, etc. It bothered him, he was honest and shared it, and he was let go citing sexual harassment' reasons. He was compelled to file a suit to protect his own career and I hope he is successful....these women should have been more sensitive to HIM IMHO. Was it so difficult for them to tone things down/be a bit more discreet if he asked? But no...they had to go after him. Very sad IMHO.

On the other hand I've also worked with male nurses who joke innappropriately and take offense if a female asks them to cool it. I voiced my concern about his joking to a coworker after a femoral sheath'd patient was told to 'push with his third leg' as we boosted him up in the bed, and the next day the gossip was that I was a constipated bytch with no sense of humor..

So IMO we have to talk about these things honestly and stop the pizzy stuff.

Specializes in Geriatrics/Oncology/Psych/College Health.

Kevin - I understand your frustration, particularly at the thread that wondered how in the world you wolves controlled your hormones ;).

I responded initially that thread very briefly - it seemed to me a no-brainer. I'm sorry that the OP in that instance didn't take the word of the professionals (male nurses responding) that our work is *not* a sexual thing, plain and simple. I closed it when it became evident that no amount of assurances would suffice, and our male nurses were being put on the defensive for no good reason.

As regards the hairy chest thread, it was started by a male as I recall lol; I nonetheless steered away from it, figuring it to be a bit of fun.

I do believe my female-ness to a certain extent makes me blind in some instances as to what may be offensive to males. I appreciate anytime another perspective is offered :).

Specializes in SICU-MICU,Radiology,ER.

I certainly didnt apologize for anything.

Regarding the first post I suggested the OP is a pervert and probably sexually attracted to her own offspring.

Regarding the second post I commented something to the effect if people cant accept that most men have chest hair the can kiss my...well you get it.

What about women with chest hair, or mustaches. Should they shave these?

Personally I thought these posts to be not worth taking seriously-

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Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
Who ever said females don't have it rough.

Interesting how many females are answering a question addressed to the men.

Looks like Marie was right after all. Having a separate board for the male nurses have served to only divide, instead of offering a place for relating. :)

I couldn't agree more, it does seem that way. Here in UK I really dont know if male nurses have hard time or not it has just never crossed my mind, i havent heard them complain of sexual harressment. I have seen female cliets come on to them just like male clients can come on to the female nurses. So I would be interested to hear from any UK male nurses who have a hard time?

We had a male student midwife and he used to get very angry if we asked the woman in labour 'would it be ok if the male student midwife delivered your baby' he said if it one of the female students then you wouldnt say 'female student midwife'.

I did feel the women had a right to know if the midwife was male or female, but hey maybe I was wrong?

Specializes in Everything but psych!.
I had a female nurse grab my buns one night and say what a nice a## I have. I tolerated it then because I was a mousey newbie nurse, but if a male did that to her he would be sent to jail for sexual assault and harrassment.

I would have AT LEAST told the nurse, male or female, "did you know that is sexual harassment?" I recall a situation decades ago when a seasoned nurse and I were working with a new GN, who was male. We were kidding him about something. He said three short words that shut me up in a hurry, "That's sexual harassment." I NEVER kidded after that. Thankfully his words were a warning to stop and not a complaint! Whether the "victim" is male or female, the words need to be used. We all know the consequences of sexual harassment and know we don't want to go there. Sometimes, all in the name of fun, a person gets carried away. I appreciated the words of warning and learned from them.

Guys, I am sorry for the frustrations you go through. I only have words of respect for 99.999% of you out there. Thank you for being willing to add so much to the nursing profession.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I would have AT LEAST told the nurse, male or female, "did you know that is sexual harassment?" I recall a situation decades ago when a seasoned nurse and I were working with a new GN, who was male. We were kidding him about something. He said three short words that shut me up in a hurry, "That's sexual harassment." I NEVER kidded after that. Thankfully his words were a warning to stop and not a complaint! Whether the "victim" is male or female, the words need to be used. We all know the consequences of sexual harassment and know we don't want to go there. Sometimes, all in the name of fun, a person gets carried away. I appreciated the words of warning and learned from them.

Guys, I am sorry for the frustrations you go through. I only have words of respect for 99.999% of you out there. Thank you for being willing to add so much to the nursing profession.

right on. our male colleagues deserve the same respect we demand for ourselves.
Specializes in Utilization Management.
Originally Posted by 3rdShiftGuy

I had a female nurse grab my buns one night and say what a nice a## I have. I tolerated it then because I was a mousey newbie nurse, but if a male did that to her he would be sent to jail for sexual assault and harrassment.

Exactly what I was trying to get across earlier. I witnessed a similar incident and it was shocking and upsetting even for me, the witness. I protested to the perpetrator and offered to be a witness for the victim, but I know he didn't report it.

Culturally, I think there's just too much stigma against guys who do report. That is shameful.

Tweety, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

We--ESPECIALLY because we're nurses--need to be better than that.

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