What would you do?

[EDNURSE20, BSN]

I had an interview today that went amazingly. They stated they will check my references and if they are OK he will be offering me the job. 

I get a call from HR shortly after asking for my references, but state I must use my manager! 

Here’s the problem. My manager hates me. She is so petty and passive aggressive. We have had a lot of staff leave recently, and she has turned around and told them to their face all the terrible things she said in the reference check. I know she won’t have one good thing to say about me. I know she’s been trying to get rid of me, but hasn’t been able to find anything  

I want this job so bad, and essentially I’ve got it. My manager has to be my reference, but she will ruin any-chance of me getting this job. 

What do I do? 

[SansNom]

If she's actually trying to get rid of you, it sounds like she would take this opportunity and not try to bad talk you knowing this could be her chance to get rid of you.

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, SansNom said:

If she's actually trying to get rid of you, it sounds like she would take this opportunity and not try to bad talk you knowing this could be her chance to get rid of you.

Or she could torpedo the OP's chance at this job and thereby hold on to her longer; all the better to continue mistreating her.

She sounds like a sociopath.

[RNperdiem, RN]

Is there an assistant nurse manager in your department who you are on better terms with? Technically they are in management, and you can list that person instead.

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

You could preface the reference by saying there have been some personality conflicts with your manager and leave it at that. There's a good chance that the hiring manager, with whom you had a very good interview, will be able to see through the negative comments of a passive aggressive manager. If you have to use your manager, find two other references that you trust and the negative reference will stick out as an outlier. 

[Davey Do]

In my career, I've been fired from no less than four facilities and have gotten positions thereafter with no problem. In fact, after being fired from two of the facilities, I got positions as a nursing supervisor!

What would I do? Go forward, head raised, knowing that I am (was) a good nurse and that some people put personalities before principals.

I've always allowed The Fates to lead me- or drag me- and can say that things always turned out for the best.

Good luck in your new position, EDNURSE!

[JKL33]

11 hours ago, EDNURSE20 said:

We have had a lot of staff leave recently, and she has turned around and told them to there face all the terrible things she said in the reference check.

Remember that people like this are often big talkers. I would handle this based on my assessment of the likelihood that she is actually doing this. It is well known that slandering employees during a reference check is something that HR is worried about; it's supposedly the reason they have all moved to reporting only dates of employment and employee standing with the company. If she's making any false statements about her employees she could get the company in some hot water.

So...have these other staff been able to successfully leave or not?

Think it through. If you choose to say anything to HR at the new place, choose words carefully. My manager is [name]. I do not know whether to expect a good reference from her. I have done a good job there but she's been openly telling the staff that she says horrible things in reference checks if anyone tries to leave."

What you say is important. Be one step ahead and realize that they might be asking for manager's name just to hear what applicants say in response! "She hates me!"-- NOT GOOD. "We don't get along" -- NOT GOOD. "She has never liked me from day one!" -- NOT GOOD. Even "personality conflict" -- NOT GOOD; that sounds like both people are the problem instead of just one person who terrorizes others.

 

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

2 hours ago, JKL33 said:

If you choose to say anything to HR at the new place, choose words carefully.

I can see where you are coming from with your advice. I think I tend to recommend a more vague approach like leaving it at a "personality conflict", just as when someone is fired from a previous position referring to it as "not a good fit" when asked about it. I would hesitate to give details of the situation as you mentioned just because if for some reason the hiring manager mentions it to her when calling for a reference, she could retaliate against the employee. Then again, others can corroborate that it's a true statement so I'm not sure what the end game would be if that were to happen. I also have concerns about saying anything openly negative about a former employer in any capacity during an interview, even if it's true and verifiable. I think sometimes that makes employers nervous. 

[JKL33]

5 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

I also have concerns about saying anything openly negative about a former employer in any capacity during an interview, even if it's true and verifiable.

Yes. It is a hard call. 50/50 she is actually badmouthing people (maybe less than that). I do make a distinction between offering my own (negative) opinion of someone vs. reporting information that they themselves have said--although it's true that if what they have said paints themselves in a bad light when reported to someone else then the overall message may be received as "negative" by the person who hears it and may be held against the person who reported it.

It's hard to advise anything here because I make my own decisions in real-time based on fairly nuanced perceptions of the specific people involved. ?  But...if I really believed this manager is indeed going to badmouth me, I would engage as personably as possible with (new place's) HR and when they asked for managers name I'd pleasantly say something like, "Sure - her name is [xyz]. I've done well there but I'm not sure what kind of references she gives....she openly states that she will give a poor reference if people try to leave..." <Again, I always make these types of judgment calls based on the feeling I get from the person I'm talking with...>

[speedynurse, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

It’s always hard to know what to do in this situation. You have had a lot of good advice and it sounds like it is not optional to use your manager (which is the same at my employer for internal transfers). I would recommend being diplomatic and also having backup references that you know you trust. I think you should still try to make the transfer - it really can’t hurt anything and may very well give you a chance to move to a better unit. Also - toxic managers do exist and HR should be aware of that. I have been in situations where leaders have been in situations they should have never been in and HR knows that. It happens. Try to be the better person - be kind, diplomatic, watch what you say, and express your desire to grow in another unit.

[TippyTappyMeow, MSN]

I have a similar situation. I was asked to provide manager reference from my current organization and my peers informed me the manager does not provide favorable references. This is the case for staff trying to transfer internally as well. I put a prior department manager who doesn't provide references, but will send the last annual evaluation. 

It's been a few weeks since this company asked for references and neither of my managers provided one. I'm embarrassed because I don't know if I should withdraw my application at this point. I can't tell the recruiter none of my managers at this organization provide references for anyone.

The cherry on the top my current manager is known to black list employees when they leave the organization. Transfers are hard to get and you have to pretty much go to HR with solid evidence it's being blocked without merit.

[summertx]

I don't know why places ask for a reference from a manager in this way when it's a well known fact that there is a lot of conflict of interest in the profession.