What to do about DNP and flu shot?

Megan1977, MSN, EdD, RN · Feb 1, 2020

On 1/31/2020 at 12:04 PM, Rose_Queen said:
GBS and the link to flu vaccine
In 1976, there was a small increased risk of GBS after swine flu vaccination, which was a special flu vaccine for a potential pandemic strain of flu virus. The National Academy of Medicine, formerly known as Institute of Medicine, conducted a scientific review of this issue in 2003 and found that people who received the 1976 swine flu vaccine had an increased risk for developing GBS. The increased risk was approximately one additional case of GBS for every 100,000 people who got the swine flu vaccine. Scientists have several theories about the cause, but the exact reason for this link remains unknown.
There have been several studies of the risk of GBS after flu vaccine and CDC monitors for GBS during each flu season. The data on an association between seasonal influenza vaccine and GBS have been variable from season-to-season. When there has been an increased risk, it has consistently been in the range of 1-2 additional GBS cases per million flu vaccine doses administered.
Studies suggest that it is more likely that a person will get GBS after getting the flu than after vaccination. It is important to keep in mind that severe illness and death are associated with flu, and getting vaccinated is the best way to prevent flu infection and its complications.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/guillain-barre-syndrome.html

#RealScience ????

Banana nut, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Feb 1, 2020

Ive personality seen and cared for multiple pts with GBS...it's horrific. I personally would rather get the flu than that...

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2020

30 minutes ago, Banana nut said:
Ive personality seen and cared for multiple pts with GBS...it's horrific. I personally would rather get the flu than that...

Getting the flu INCREASES your chances to get GBS while getting flu vaccine can DECREASE the relative risk even from very low numbers which are there:

One of the many:

https://www.mdedge.com/chestphysician/article/111834/vaccines/myth-month-vaccinations-patients-guillain-barre-syndrome

Just so you know.

Lorri Cook, ADN, RN · Feb 1, 2020

Just because this nurse happens to not become ill with the flu, does not mean she doesn't carry it.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Feb 2, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 2:00 PM, Banana nut said:
Ive personality seen and cared for multiple pts with GBS...it's horrific. I personally would rather get the flu than that...

Yes, well , research shows that you are more likely to get GBS after having the flu than after getting the flu vaccine. So...wouldn’t you be better off going with the better odds?

jobellestarr · Feb 2, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Emergent said:
There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.
The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.
If my next job requires a flu vaccine I will get it because I don't want to wear a mask, but I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself.
As far as I'm concerned, if one is immunocompromised, one should be wearing a mask themselves. Every time this person goes in public, they should be wearing a mask. It's just common sense. When they are in the hospital, we need to how to reverse isolation and require all staff to wear masks in the room.
Also, hospitals should be very well prepared to cover shifts when nurses are sick. Too many nurses come to work when they are ill. The same hospitals that are requiring flu vaccines put pressure on nurses to come to work even if they're sick. That is the height of hypocrisy.

I don’t think that people consider themselves “immune compromised “ when the have chronic diseases. I have had a couple of diabetics die from the flu who were in pretty good health and in their 30’s. I think your argument is a bit flawed. As a nurse, I think it’s incumbent upon us to be the professionals we’re supposed to be and do no harm. But I do agree completely with your statement about coming to work when we’re sick.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Feb 2, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Emergent said:
There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.
The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.
If my next job requires a flu vaccine I will get it because I don't want to wear a mask, but I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself.
As far as I'm concerned, if one is immunocompromised, one should be wearing a mask themselves. Every time this person goes in public, they should be wearing a mask. It's just common sense. When they are in the hospital, we need to how to reverse isolation and require all staff to wear masks in the room.
Also, hospitals should be very well prepared to cover shifts when nurses are sick. Too many nurses come to work when they are ill. The same hospitals that are requiring flu vaccines put pressure on nurses to come to work even if they're sick. That is the height of hypocrisy.

Wait, how do you acquire "an immunity to the flu" if the prevalent strains change every year? Isn't that the same reason why the formulation of the vaccine has to change constantly?

Emergent, RN · Feb 2, 2020

2 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:
Wait, how do you acquire "an immunity to the flu" if the prevalent strains change every year? Isn't that the same reason why the formulation of the vaccine has to change constantly?

That might be something worth investigating. I haven't had the flu in over 30 years. I had it once at age 17, and twice in my 20s. All 3 cases were knock you on your orifice, 103+ fevers, in bed for a week cases, bad respiratory symptoms. Now I appear to be immune. I've been exposed many many times.

Now, I daresay, I'm likely healthier and more vigorous than most posting on this thread. The proofs in the pudding. There have been studies, by the way, giving evidence that fighting off illnesses is beneficial to the body. It lowers cancer rates and autoimmune problems. The immune system likes to keep busy.

I do feel vaccines and antibiotics have their place and have obviously saved many lives. But, the rise in allergies and autoimmune diseases has been exponential in the last forty or fifty years. I think these things should be used more judiciously.

Emergent, RN · Feb 2, 2020

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure autism has been ruled out as being caused by vaccines. There is strong evidence though, linking it to bacteria in the gut. I think that points to overuse of antibiotics which alter and destroy the balance of bacteria in the gut.

There have been some great new insights into gut bacteria, and its effect on immune system and other bodily functions. They have analyzed the gut bacteria of the frozen people they found in the Alps and other places, who were from the hunter-gatherer era. Industrialization and the switch to an agricultural based diet has drastically altered gut bacteria. This has accelerated greatly since the introduction of antibiotics. At the same time we've seen this huge increase in autoimmune diseases and autism.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 2, 2020

On 2/2/2020 at 7:27 AM, Emergent said:
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure autism has been ruled out as being caused by vaccines. There is strong evidence though, linking it to bacteria in the gut. I think that points to overuse of antibiotics which alter and destroy the balance of bacteria in the gut.
There have been some great new insights into gut bacteria, and its effect on immune system and other bodily functions. They have analyzed the gut bacteria of the frozen people they found in the Alps and other places, who were from the hunter-gatherer era. Industrialization and the switch to an agricultural based diet has drastically altered gut bacteria. This has accelerated greatly since the introduction of antibiotics. At the same time we've seen this huge increase in autoimmune diseases and autism.

Yes, I have been reading a lot lately about gut microbiome and it's affect on a myriad of health problems. Particularly the fact that we don't get enough fiber to feed and grow the good microbiome. Always learning.

Lorri Cook, ADN, RN · Feb 2, 2020

Once again, it's nice for the folks who don't seem to get the flu, but another more important point is to raise "herd immunity", and protect society at large.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 2, 2020

1 hour ago, Emergent said:
That might be something worth investigating. I haven't had the flu in over 30 years. I had it once at age 17, and twice in my 20s. All 3 cases were knock you on your orifice, 103+ fevers, in bed for a week cases, bad respiratory symptoms. Now I appear to be immune. I've been exposed many many times.
Now, I daresay, I'm likely healthier and more vigorous than most posting on this thread. The proofs in the pudding. There have been studies, by the way, giving evidence that fighting off illnesses is beneficial to the body. It lowers cancer rates and autoimmune problems. The immune system likes to keep busy.
I do feel vaccines and antibiotics have their place and have obviously saved many lives. But, the rise in allergies and autoimmune diseases has been exponential in the last forty or fifty years. I think these things should be used more judiciously.

I don't know that having the flu 30 years ago would make you immune for life especially with mutating strains and the flu of today is probably not the flu of 30 years ago.

Why doesn't that happen to everyone? Why do some people get the flu every season? Why do some people get it every five years or so?

I think that just like there are people that smoke into their 90's with no ill effects some of us are freaks of nature when it comes to the flu. I've been laid up with the flu twice. Once as a kid and once as a college student at age 18. I am 60 now.

For decades after that I never got the flu shot because I never got the flu. I have been taking it for the last few years under pressure from work, and the argument that what if I carry it to a sicker person is a good one, and I don't want to wear a mask. Am I immune? Or just an outlier? Or just healthier than the average person that gets the flu. Who knows? Certainly in 40 years I've come into contact with people with the flu. In fact I just took care of a patient with pneumonia that was found three days into her admission to have Influenza A (and she got her flu shot).

I can't claim I never get sick but and I will say that a few times over the years I've had some bugs that have put me to bed for a day but nothing like flu that lays people up for many days.