What to do about DNP and flu shot?

Nurses General Nursing

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I am finishing my MSN soon, and had thought that I would get my DNP. However, I am second guessing this after a big ordeal from my school about me not taking a flu shot. My hospital does not require it if I wear a mask. I hate to put the time and money into getting a DNP, and at some point be required to take a flu shot to work in nursing. I WILL NOT. I will change careers. I’m not looking for pro flu shot comments here. However, I am looking for advice and useful information on what you think the future holds in this matter. I also have an MBA, and can just as easily go into a DBA program.

Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
5 hours ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

One of the most eloquent and educated responses on this thread. So many responses are attacking her and just plain ruin. Nurses can be such catty and vile people!

So catty and vile to ignore the screes of evidence based research demonstrating the benefits of the flu vaccination in not only protecting staff, but protecting vulnerable immune compromised patients.

How dare we not support the OP for wanting to put patients at risk

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What exactly does that even mean-"I don't believe in the flu shot"?

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I have been vaccinated due to my job's mandation so you are "clearly"incorrect. However, personally I don't believe in the flu shot for myself.

6 hours ago, Tenebrae said:

So catty and vile to ignore the screes of evidence based research demonstrating the benefits of the flu vaccination in not only protecting staff, but protecting vulnerable immune compromised patients.

How dare we not support the OP for wanting to put patients at risk

She asked a question which can be answered without being rude. But that's just the culture of nursing. I never said we had to support her belief. Nice try

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11 hours ago, MunoRN said:

You clearly aren't separating your personal life from your professional life since in your professional life you are interacting with patients without having been vaccinated, which is due to a "personal" belief rather than proper professional practice.

I have been vaccinated since my job requires it so you are incorrect! I just don't believe in the flu shot for myself personally.

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29 minutes ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

I have been vaccinated since my job requires it so you are incorrect! I just don't believe in the flu shot for myself personally.

I'm curious as to why you "don't believe in it for yourself". Is it the sometimes low efficacy rate? If that's it, it would seem to me that even in those years you have a demonstrated measure of protection against flu rather than zero protection..? Isn't something better than nothing? Or is there another reason?

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3 hours ago, Waiting for Retirement said:

I'm curious as to why you "don't believe in it for yourself". Is it the sometimes low efficacy rate? If that's it, it would seem to me that even in those years you have a demonstrated measure of protection against flu rather than zero protection..? Isn't something better than nothing? Or is there another reason?

I have seen people who received the flu shot and were otherwise healthy individuals get extremely sick post vaccination. One lady actually has permanent neuromuscular damage post vaccination. Did the flu shot cause this? Not 100% sure and it can't be proven. However, based on these adverse outcomes for myself (young and healthy, zero comorbidities) I'd rather risk getting the flu than permanent damage of some sort. I strongly believe in the coming years some evidence will cause out about the flu shot causing permanent issues. Just my personal belief.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
1 hour ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

You are absolutely right: this is just your personal belief. You can “strongly believe” there is going to be some sort of evidence that that is going to come out, but this is no different from strongly believing that unicorns or Yetis are real. To be clear, your opinion is not based on any extant data; the influenza vaccine has been extensively studied for decades. There might actually be more data to support that the Yeti is real.

Personal opinions are fine and I’m glad you refer patients to appropriate expert guidance. In this age, it is increasingly important to remind people that chiming in with their personal opinions on topics with no data to back it up has real consequences. Your “sharing” of your personal opinion is not benign: it can/may/could have fatal consequences for someone reading it,‘or their kids, or their patients. We are free to speak our opinion, however, we should consider the consequences of it prior to doing so.

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5 hours ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

I have been vaccinated since my job requires it so you are incorrect! I just don't believe in the flu shot for myself personally.

You are not the same as OP, then. She is outright refusing the vaccine. Can you fathom what it would take for you to actually completely give up your career over your beliefs regarding a vaccine? To hold onto your beliefs THAT strongly...I do not trust AT ALL that she can be professional enough to do her job with administering vaccines and educating on them.

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
2 hours ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

I have seen people who received the flu shot and were otherwise healthy individuals get extremely sick post vaccination. One lady actually has permanent neuromuscular damage post vaccination. Did the flu shot cause this? Not 100% sure and it can't be proven. However, based on these adverse outcomes for myself (young and healthy, zero comorbidities) I'd rather risk getting the flu than permanent damage of some sort. I strongly believe in the coming years some evidence will cause out about the flu shot causing permanent issues. Just my personal belief.

But you accept flu vaccine and provide education based on existing evidence despite of your personal beliefs. This makes all the difference from what OP declares.

Although, I would bet a round sum of money for that within the next 10 years there will be no evidence of flu shot causing "permanent issues" any more than infection with influenza virus itself. It is not a belief. It is a math thing sometimes named "effect of growing cohorts", or one of the famous "big number effects". Plainly, the power of a study directly affects strengh of correlational effect, and, as power increases, the strength of correlation at some point (which nowadays can be calculated with approximations) starts to increase out of proportion. In other words, the more power a study holds, the stronger the correlation (and therefore the evidence of "this is happening because of that"), and after it is high enough to break the "statistical ceiling", if we further increase the power x10, for example, the calculated strength of correlation can theoretically increase x10[squared]. This effect is well known for "long running cohorts", like the famous Hammond-Horn study of 1955 when final count of 188000 subjects in two running cohorts suddenly showed statistically unbeatable link between smoking and lung cancer in just 3 years and with lower incidence/prevalence of lung cancer than today. The link was not demonstrated in the beginning of the study when initial cohorts were just 1000x2.

The combined power of influenza vaccine studies is counted in millions of subjects only in developed countries, with probably the most diverse genetic mix achievable, in addition to tens of millions of people getting either the vaccine or the flu every year, thanks to globalization. If there were perceptable increase of any "permanent issues" (not counting those "I have no idea why it is hurting, let's name it lupus" things not existing en masse outside of the USA), they will be noticed at this point.

It is devilishly difficult to look for a black cat in absolutely dark room - especially so if the cat is not even there.

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5 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

You are absolutely right: this is just your personal belief. You can “strongly believe” there is going to be some sort of evidence that that is going to come out, but this is no different from strongly believing that unicorns or Yetis are real. To be clear, your opinion is not based on any extant data; the influenza vaccine has been extensively studied for decades. There might actually be more data to support that the Yeti is real.

Personal opinions are fine and I’m glad you refer patients to appropriate expert guidance. In this age, it is increasingly important to remind people that chiming in with their personal opinions on topics with no data to back it up has real consequences. Your “sharing” of your personal opinion is not benign: it can/may/could have fatal consequences for someone reading it,‘or their kids, or their patients. We are free to speak our opinion, however, we should consider the consequences of it prior to doing

??

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23 hours ago, QueenBeeRN23 said:

Incorrect. I personally do not believe in the flu shot. I have my DNP and FNP. When patients ask whether they should get it or not I tell them the information from the CDC and that it is recommended, benefits of it, etc. I seperate my personal life from my professional life. Simple.

Your use of the word “incorrect” makes no sense in this context. How is she “incorrect” by saying one shouldn’t be allowed to be a DNP and not believe in the flu shot?

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Have you considered Naturopathic Doctor or DO? 

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