We’re all being “fired”! Is this legal?

[Taylor22]

I work on a Surgical Oncology floor. It should technically be qualified as a step down, we’ve been fighting for years to be qualified as a step down. Travel nurses and float pool alike run screaming when they have to come to our unit. Our ratios are 5:1 with fresh trach and lary patients thrown in the mix. Not to mention all of the other highly involved post operative patients.

Earlier this year, our management mentioned they would like us all to get the OCN certification. It’s a highly involved cert, mainly dealing with chemo, which we NEVER do on my floor. Now, they are calling people at home and the conversation is as follows: “are you planning to get your OCN by February?” If you answer no, the response is, “then are you planning to tender your resignation by February?” 

At first this certification was just a recommendation, a “we’d like you to.” Now it’s become mandatory. Many of the staff nurses have worked there for years without it and everyone is fearful of losing their jobs after the holidays. Myself included.

Not a month ago, we had a staff meeting and my manager said she couldn’t “pay people enough” to come work on our unit, now they’re going to fire those who will?

I guess my question is, what is the legality of this? It was not a requirement when we signed on. They’re calling people at home on off days to use bullying tactics about getting it and scaring them into quitting (probably to avoid paying unemployment). Most of the nurses have said they won’t do it at this point. 

We’ve all expressed we will get certified in something that has to do with our actual jobs. But this certification is a lot of time (and money) spent for something we will not use, simply for the letters behind the name. What do you guys think? Is is time to move to greener pastures? Can they actually fire an entire floor? Thanks for your help.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Do you have a union? If not, then yes, they can change the job description at any time and terminate anyone who does not meet it.

I'd be interested in learning about the rationale behind this new push. I'm guessing it has something to do with seeking Magnet designation. How WEIRD, though.

[chare]

2 hours ago, klone said:

[...]

I'd be interested in learning about the rationale behind this new push. I'm guessing it has something to do with seeking Magnet designation. How WEIRD, though.

My thoughts exactly.  Years back, when the facility I was working began their Magnet journey they encouraged certification as well.  However, they accepted a variety of certifications, rather than specifying a single one for each unit as well as reimbursing the cost of both initial and recertification.  I do find it strange however that they expect all staff to do this on such a short time notice.

[Daisy4RN]

I find this a little strange. I worked on an Onc unit and the hospital did their own chemo certification. Later they switched to ONC certification but gave us 1 year to obtain and they said they would pay for initial and recerts plus a yearly bonus. The bonus went away after the first year(shocking I know).  If people didn’t want to obtain the ONC they still needed to do the hospital ONC certification. They can of course fire anyone for anything if they want to, even with a union but it might be more difficult. If you haven’t received any official documentation/paperwork yet I would contact HR for further clarification of the “new policy”. You might get better info through them. 
Good luck!

[LovingLife123]

You can legally be fired for anything that doesn’t involve a protected class.  I would honestly brush up on labor laws.  It’s important to know and understand what an employer can and can’t do.  
It sounds like you have 2 choices, either get the certification or find a new job.

I had to get stroke certified every year when I worked on a neuro unit.  Then I was required to get my TCAR cert.  

I would think your unit would have to pay for the certification if they are requiring it, but again, those are things you need to find out.

[klone, MSN, RN]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:22 PM, Daisy4RN said:

They can of course fire anyone for anything if they want to, even with a union but it might be more difficult. If you haven’t received any official documentation/paperwork yet I would contact HR for further clarification of the “new policy”. You might get better info through them. 
Good luck!

If it's union, then they cannot just change the job requirements and then fire people for not meeting them, unless the ability to do that is written into the union contract. They would need to repost the job with the new requirements, and then people would need to reapply to the new job.

[RNperdiem, RN]

I got exhausted just reading your post. Do you really even want to continue working there? I get a toxic vibe. Being called at home and having your job threatened? Really? As therapists often counsel people with the phrase: Is this relationship acceptable to you? A job is kind of a relationship, where yes you can be fired easily. Conversely, you also have the power to leave for any reason at any time. 

Depending on the area you are in, a lot of places are hiring nurses and getting a job in a different place should not be difficult.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

Sounds like the plan is to start doing chemo on your floor. Along with everything else. 

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

Do they have such an abundance of available nurses they can really replace you guys?

[JKL33]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:07 AM, Taylor22 said:

Now, they are calling people at home and the conversation is as follows: “are you planning to get your OCN by February?” If you answer no, the response is, “then are you planning to tender your resignation by February?” 

I mean this is terrible treatment--not because a certification is being required but because there's no openness about what's going on and because of their approach. When they're calling you with their sarcastic threats they're telling you what they think of you.

"Can they do this" is often the wrong question. There is a lot they can do and even if they can't/aren't supposed to, good luck with that if you don't have substantial backing. Better to ask yourself whether you enjoy this completely unnecessary type of treatment as a regular part of your life. People need to ask themselves that instead of getting all riled up about whether something is legal or not. Do you like being treated that way. If not, make your decisions accordingly.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

people should leave That is unsafe. I am dealing with a situation where we are taking higher acuity patients, but we have some flexibility with ratios. 3-4:1 Only time there might be 5:1 is if we are really short and they are no stepdown patients (its rare). 

I did not think they could force someone to get certified, even after the fact. So sorry!

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

I mean this is terrible treatment--not because a certification is being required but because there's no openness about what's going on and because of their approach. When they're calling you with their sarcastic threats they're telling you what they think of you.

"Can they do this" is often the wrong question. There is a lot they can do and even if they can't/aren't supposed to, good luck with that if you don't have substantial backing. Better to ask yourself whether you enjoy this completely unnecessary type of treatment as a regular part of your life. People need to ask themselves that instead of getting all riled up about whether something is legal or not. Do you like being treated that way. If not, make your decisions accordingly.

Agree 100%..