I work on a Surgical Oncology floor. It should technically be qualified as a step down, we’ve been fighting for years to be qualified as a step down. Travel nurses and float pool alike run screaming when they have to come to our unit. Our ratios are 5:1 with fresh trach and lary patients thrown in the mix. Not to mention all of the other highly involved post operative patients.
Earlier this year, our management mentioned they would like us all to get the OCN certification. It’s a highly involved cert, mainly dealing with chemo, which we NEVER do on my floor. Now, they are calling people at home and the conversation is as follows: “are you planning to get your OCN by February?” If you answer no, the response is, “then are you planning to tender your resignation by February?”
At first this certification was just a recommendation, a “we’d like you to.” Now it’s become mandatory. Many of the staff nurses have worked there for years without it and everyone is fearful of losing their jobs after the holidays. Myself included.
Not a month ago, we had a staff meeting and my manager said she couldn’t “pay people enough” to come work on our unit, now they’re going to fire those who will?
I guess my question is, what is the legality of this? It was not a requirement when we signed on. They’re calling people at home on off days to use bullying tactics about getting it and scaring them into quitting (probably to avoid paying unemployment). Most of the nurses have said they won’t do it at this point.
We’ve all expressed we will get certified in something that has to do with our actual jobs. But this certification is a lot of time (and money) spent for something we will not use, simply for the letters behind the name. What do you guys think? Is is time to move to greener pastures? Can they actually fire an entire floor? Thanks for your help.
As other commenters have said, it is likely entirely legal. That does not necessarily mean your only options are getting the cert or being fired. Definitely get in touch in touch with HR and find out if this is an official written policy. If it isn't, you have at least some standing to resist getting this certification. Also, you seemed to tacitly imply that you and your colleagues will likely be difficult to replace. That is leverage. It is very expensive for the hospital to have to hire and train new nurses. There is plenty of research concerning the cost of nurse turnover that you could present to bolster your position. If you think upper management might be more supportive, you can send an anonymous letter via snail mail to the director of nursing, or the chief nursing officer politely stating your case and asking for clarity on behalf of your unit. I would also question why this is suddenly a priority. If it is about Magnet status, is there another certification more relevant to your work? (Sorry, I know nothing about oncology.) If so, you can try to negotiate with management and ask them to accept an alternate certification and suggest a more reasonable timeframe.
If you decide to take action, it is important to have the support of a plurality of your fellow colleagues. You must stick together, and that can be the hardest part. All too often, nurses do not use what power they have and just submit. Some commenters are saying that you should just quit. However, if you have personal reasons for wanting to work there, despite crappy management tactics (e.g seniority status, ideal location, vested pension, etc.), do not let them drive you out without respectful pushback and offering other options that work for both management and staff. Good luck!
If it's union, then they cannot just change the job requirements and then fire people for not meeting them, unless the ability to do that is written into the union contract. They would need to repost the job with the new requirements, and then people would need to reapply to the new job.
LOL, in a perfect world maybe. I have worked union jobs and have seen admin fire people for any little thing and the union does nothing. If they want someone gone then they are gone!
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
12 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:
LOL, in a perfect world maybe. I have worked union jobs and have seen admin fire people for any little thing and the union does nothing. If they want someone gone then they are gone!
Interesting - everywhere I've worked, the unions have been bulldogs.
That's an odd request bc you can't get OCN certified until you have about 2 years experience administering chemo.
You say you don't administer chemo on your floor so you are not eligible to sit for the OCN certification.
Does your manager mean you must take the OCN Certificate course (different)? It teaches the basics of administering chemo but is NOT a certification. Nurses who administer chemo must have this knowledge.
If so, that would mean the plan is for your unit to be a designated chemo floor.
I'm no expert, but AFAIK the only difference with union/non-union is that (some) unions negotiate a group contract, while each non-union individual must negotiate alone. BUT, once there's a contract, the employer is bound to it's terms. Read your contract! what are your job requirements? Go to the county "lawyer referral service" and get a cheap 30 min with someone for advice. It sounds like you're not unionized, but if you are, find out if they are bought. I don't know anything about this, but members of a corrupt union can take back the reins, but your looking at almost as much work as starting from scratch. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING until you understand the implications.
As for those saying "if they don't respect you, go somewhere else." I call BS. One person says "I get a toxic vibe." well... YEAH! look up the Pinkerton's, May Day, etc. Your relationship with your employer is by definition toxic. Why do you think HR depts exist? All the gains our grandparents won at home while the boys were fighting WW2 have been eroded by lawyers. The US army has BOMBED miners; Right now picket lines are being run over by vehicles, Amazon & Starbucks are illegally & openly union busting, and, at the peril of our county's core infrastructure, the president is shoving an abusive contract down the rail workers throat and announcing the he "averted a national supply line crisis." This is before the union members were even able to read the proposed contract! BTW - I would highly recommend going to costco and loading up on staples like flour, sugar, x-mas presents etc, because all "pro-union Biden" did was delay the crisis until after the election. The Gov't is about as pro-labor as a pot-head teenager. The railroad workers are unable to live life outside of their job, but when this blows up MSM is going to gaslight us saying "look at the wage increase" even though that's not what the strike is about. Capitol will literally MURDER you if they see a benefit to their bottom line - though in recent history they have found it much more practical to character assassinate. So, the railworkers will be portrayed by the MSM as money grubbing scum eager to destroy our economy. OMG I got off topic. MY POINT is that Labor is on fire and WINNING. Those at the bottom were the first to notice that all employers are the same. They know that the business majors have taken over and all employers have the same play book. THERE IS NOWHERE LEFT TO GO. Work today is like cell phones. Each time you get a new one, it's just a little bit crappier, a little bit more expensive, a little bit less reliable, and planned obsolescence is just a little bit more integrated. The line must be drawn here! Essential workers have all the power anytime they choose to use it. Nurses are leaders, and have historically been leaders in labor. We have a job that the investors see as 100% cost, with no return. The better we do our job, the fewer billable hospital days, the cheaper the medications, the more independent our pts become. However, the people see us as the whole point, the end goal - why have a booming economy if you can't even have healthcare?
It sounds like you already have open communication lines with your co-workers and everybody's pissed. You are primed to organize. If you walk away, you'll pretty soon find yourself in the same situation, with a weaker network, less power, and a learned habit of walking away from a fight. I was up all night the other day exploring [unit workers dot com]. They have a lot of info on how to start, and you can use them as a communication tool, or not. All you really need is 51% signatures stating "I want to be unionized and agree to let the union negotiate for me". Even if you do use them, the only obligation is to pay (I forget exactly) 0.8% of union dues to continue using them after you form a union. IDK... I'm currently looking at a short list of co-workers I trust and trying to work up the courage to start. This post is more about me than you.
When I was hired to Telemetry I had certain classes to take and had 6 months for the ACLS. I later got certified by my own choice. If you are not happy you should leave. Why not get certified if that's your specialty. As a traveler I floated to Oncology many times and they had me giving chemo. Other places I was not allowed because I was not certified. I have an office job now and happy I am not on the floor anymore.
Nothing in the eligibility requires one to administer chemotherapy.
Quote
The following eligibility criteria must be met at the time of application and examination.
A current, active, unencumbered license as a registered nurse in the US, its territories or Canada at the time of application and examination.
A minimum of two years (24 months) of experience as an RN within the four years (48 months) prior to application, and
A minimum of 2,000 hours of adult oncology nursing practice within the four years (48 months) prior to application. Nursing practice may be in clinical practice, nursing administration, education, research or consultation.
Completed a minimum of 10 contact hours of nursing continuing education in oncology or an academic elective in oncology nursing within the three years (36 months) prior to application. The contact hours must have been provided or formally approved by an acceptable accredited provider or approver of continuing nursing education....
Written clarification needed to understand why certification now being requested and timeline for achieving certification status for staff to be fully informed of requirements for working on the unit.
I was a manger when health system instituted BSN as minimum requirement for employment, needed to outline # staff without BSN. System offered $10,000/year to obtain BSN for those without degree. Fury over that decision was like a bomb went off in nursing units. Only 3 out of my 9 RN's had BSN --others diploma grads with 25+yrs experience. After gathering system wide RN degree info, staggering cost of BSN degree changed Admins viewpoint: back to $5,000 college reimbursement (unless had applied and accepted higher amount), those with >5yrs as employee grandfathered in; those with less than 5 years nursing experience, had 5 years to obtain BSN with all new employees BSN required.
So gather your colleagues together to write a clear letter to Nursing Administration to clarify your concerns about OCN certification.
I work on a Surgical Oncology floor. It should technically be qualified as a step down, we’ve been fighting for years to be qualified as a step down. Travel nurses and float pool alike run screaming when they have to come to our unit. Our ratios are 5:1 with fresh trach and lary patients thrown in the mix. Not to mention all of the other highly involved post operative patients.
Earlier this year, our management mentioned they would like us all to get the OCN certification. It’s a highly involved cert, mainly dealing with chemo, which we NEVER do on my floor. Now, they are calling people at home and the conversation is as follows: “are you planning to get your OCN by February?” If you answer no, the response is, “then are you planning to tender your resignation by February?”
At first this certification was just a recommendation, a “we’d like you to.” Now it’s become mandatory. Many of the staff nurses have worked there for years without it and everyone is fearful of losing their jobs after the holidays. Myself included.
Not a month ago, we had a staff meeting and my manager said she couldn’t “pay people enough” to come work on our unit, now they’re going to fire those who will?
I guess my question is, what is the legality of this? It was not a requirement when we signed on. They’re calling people at home on off days to use bullying tactics about getting it and scaring them into quitting (probably to avoid paying unemployment). Most of the nurses have said they won’t do it at this point.
We’ve all expressed we will get certified in something that has to do with our actual jobs. But this certification is a lot of time (and money) spent for something we will not use, simply for the letters behind the name. What do you guys think? Is is time to move to greener pastures? Can they actually fire an entire floor? Thanks for your help.
This is beyond bizarre. Was there an official announcement/policy about this or the phone calls just started coming in, out of nowhere? You and your co-workers should request a staff meeting with management/HR to provide clarification about the situation and come up with your own questions regarding monetary reimbursement, rationale and to address the unrealistic time frame. As many had mention, it seems you and your co-workers have leverage in number; however, in my experience (unless there is an union), it is hard to get nurses to stick together, since no one wants to be the one to stick their neck out. Once you have a written document/policy in hand, consider consulting a lawyer specializing in labor laws.
A hospital's, or any employer's, right to fire varies by state but they obviously want you to resign. Don't resign, it will only disqualify you for unemployment benefits. Let them fire you and then sort it out.
Wow, just wow. A number of things stand out. You say you don't do chemo now so the ONC certification requires I believe you have to have been a oncology nurse for at least a year and you have to have knowledge of various types of chemo to pass the exam. Second, with the ability of nurses to find a job just about anywhere these days, if someone called me at home and threatened my job, I would have to respond, "how about two weeks, this is your notice I won't be in after two weeks!". Geez some managers should not really be managers.
Thinking a little more about this, I can't imagine how smart it is to fire an entire department in today's job market, especially a department nobody wants to work in, even if it is "legal" to do so. And is the hospital paying for the certification class? When I worked emergency medicine I was required to hold certain cards within a set period - BLS, ACLS, TNCC and ENPC, as well as a valid nursing license. The classes were paid for by my employer and I was paid for the time. My failure to complete that would have resulted in my termination, and I accepted that as it was in the terms of employment. It sounds like they're changing the game on you. If you don't feel like paying for legal advice I suggest you let them dismiss you and file for unemployment and if that is denied I'd appeal it.
Devnation
49 Posts
As other commenters have said, it is likely entirely legal. That does not necessarily mean your only options are getting the cert or being fired. Definitely get in touch in touch with HR and find out if this is an official written policy. If it isn't, you have at least some standing to resist getting this certification. Also, you seemed to tacitly imply that you and your colleagues will likely be difficult to replace. That is leverage. It is very expensive for the hospital to have to hire and train new nurses. There is plenty of research concerning the cost of nurse turnover that you could present to bolster your position. If you think upper management might be more supportive, you can send an anonymous letter via snail mail to the director of nursing, or the chief nursing officer politely stating your case and asking for clarity on behalf of your unit. I would also question why this is suddenly a priority. If it is about Magnet status, is there another certification more relevant to your work? (Sorry, I know nothing about oncology.) If so, you can try to negotiate with management and ask them to accept an alternate certification and suggest a more reasonable timeframe.
If you decide to take action, it is important to have the support of a plurality of your fellow colleagues. You must stick together, and that can be the hardest part. All too often, nurses do not use what power they have and just submit. Some commenters are saying that you should just quit. However, if you have personal reasons for wanting to work there, despite crappy management tactics (e.g seniority status, ideal location, vested pension, etc.), do not let them drive you out without respectful pushback and offering other options that work for both management and staff. Good luck!