Violation of labor laws- looking up pts prior to clocking in

[telee73]

I've been taught in nursing school to be prepared for your assignment and that means coming into work an extra 30 mins prior to the start of your shift to look up your patients that were assigned. This way, when you start your shift, you have a basic understanding of your patients. When your shift starts, you are then able to ask the appropriate questions to the off-going nurse, do bedside handoffs, pick up where the last nurse left off, and begin your patient care.

I have been doing this for the past 7 years as a RN, but yesterday my manager came up to me and said looking up patients PRIOR to the start of your shift is a violation of labor laws and we are no longer allowed to do this. Looking up patients on the computer prior to clocking-in is considered "working" and is a violation.

Could anyone please shed some light on this for me? Thanks!

[klone, MSN, RN]

The violation is on the part of the employer, not the employee. My understanding is that employers cannot compel employees to work off the clock, but if an employee chooses to do that, it's okay. I would never do it for patient care for liability reasons, but I do what you describe every single day. Further, my immediate supervisor knows I do it, and if it was in violation of a law, she would be the first to tell me to stop.

I suspect that it is facility policy, rather than federal or state law.

[applesxoranges, BSN, RN]

I was under the impression it violated labor laws. Hence why if you ask an off-the-clock Walmart employee something they will tell you they are off the clock and unable to help you. They are required to do this. What I do is go grab a computer and quickly check out my patients after clocking in. I get 30 minutes for report so I can print off the orders that are in on the patient.

It is also why a Wal-mart employee will not have their manager talk to them about work during their lunch break. They will also have a register lock them out due to no lunch breaks.

I think it's the interpretation of federal law. Some companies are being stricter or employees are more vocal about it.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

for pete's sake, it is a HIPAA violation! you are not, at that moment, involved with the patient's care.

[NurseGirl525, ASN, RN]

It's an OSHA law. You are not covered under Workmans Comp if you are not clocked in. So any little injury is not covered and then you are out. So say you got tendonitis in your wrist from being on the computer, Workmans comp will not cover your work related injury. That is why.

[HarryTheCat, MSN, RN]

Hmmm...this may have something to do with either a union contract or the fact that nurses are often treated as "non-exempt" employees, where the employer would be required to pay overtime. The Federal Labor Standards Act defines exempt employees as "bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees", meaning simply that they are exempt from the FLSA. Since a "nurse" can be anything from a diploma nurse to a DNP that professional status thing can be a bit fuzzy. There is also a minimum weekly salary, which I believe is something like $455/week, before an employee can be considered exempt. Some employers have been hit with lawsuits claiming back overtime pay for non-exempt employees who were required, explicitly or implicitly, to work "off the clock", with awards sometimes running into many millions of dollars. Your employer may just be trying to avoid some future claim for back wages.

[VampyrSlayer, CNA]

The Walmart thing is dead on. I worked there after graduating HS at 17 and it was beaten into our heads that we were not to work off the clock, if a manager came up to us to talk about work while we were clocked out we were told to tell them we couldn't talk about that now.

Is it really a HIPAA violation if it's going to be your patient in a few minutes anyway?

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

I have enough time during shift change to get information about my pts. I never understood coming in 30-45 min before shift. I see that a lot. 12 hours is enough for me, thank you. I drive a long way to work, I am lucky to get there on time!!

[roser13, ASN, RN]

for pete's sake, it is a HIPAA violation! you are not, at that moment, involved with the patient's care.

I don't really think it is a HIPAA violation. The assignment has already been made and you are preparing yourself for working with those patients.

This is not comparable to the often-used example of a floor nurse perusing the ED or OR patient roster in order to "guess" which patients the floor might receive that shift.

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

The volume of FLSA-related lawsuits has increased astronomically over the last 5 years. Employers are becoming much more cautious to avoid any liability in this area because violations can incur huge fines as well as large amounts of "restitution" for the affected employees. Sometimes, this is a real pain - like having to clock out for lunch because it's not longer an "automatic" deduction. But the overall purpose is to protect workers' rights.

I admire OP's level of commitment and can certainly understand her frustration. Maybe she can talk to her boss about modifying the report/hand-off process so that it always includes pertinent information that she has been obtaining on her own.

[A&Ox6, MSN, RN]

Actually, when I was a CNA, we were told that if we were having difficulty competing assignments on time, we should be coming in earlier. No matter how early I came in, I was always told I should come earlier. So for a 7-3 there were CNAs who came at 5 a.m. We couldn't clock in until 6:50, but we were told to come earlier.

One thing that I never understood was that if my patient is going to need a.m. care at 5 and be oob by 5:20, shouldn't noc be doing it?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Actually, when I was a CNA, we were told that if we were having difficulty competing assignments on time, we should be coming in earlier. No matter how early I came in, I was always told I should come earlier. So for a 7-3 there were CNAs who came at 5 a.m. We couldn't clock in until 6:50, but we were told to come earlier.

One thing that I never understood was that if my patient is going to need a.m. care at 5 and be oob by 5:20, shouldn't noc be doing it?

All hell will freeze over before I come in at 5a.m. for 7-3pm shift. If staff are having to come in that early (two hours!!!) in order to get their assignments, then maybe that it is a sign that they are severely short staffed.