Violation of labor laws- looking up pts prior to clocking in

[telee73]

I've been taught in nursing school to be prepared for your assignment and that means coming into work an extra 30 mins prior to the start of your shift to look up your patients that were assigned. This way, when you start your shift, you have a basic understanding of your patients. When your shift starts, you are then able to ask the appropriate questions to the off-going nurse, do bedside handoffs, pick up where the last nurse left off, and begin your patient care.

I have been doing this for the past 7 years as a RN, but yesterday my manager came up to me and said looking up patients PRIOR to the start of your shift is a violation of labor laws and we are no longer allowed to do this. Looking up patients on the computer prior to clocking-in is considered "working" and is a violation.

Could anyone please shed some light on this for me? Thanks!

[toomuchbaloney]

If I am an hourly employee and I am working then I am clocked in. I don't volunteer my time to either the employer or the patient.

[scottaprn]

Here is an advisory opinion from the department of labor which states that employers are responsible for enforcing rules against employees working off the clock

" An employer cannot sit

back and accept the benefits of an employee’s work

without considering the time spent to be hours worked. Merely making a rule against such work is not enough. The employer has the power to enforce the rule and must make every effort to do so. Employees generally may not volunteer to perform work without the employer having to count the time as hours worked."

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screen1d.asp

[telee73]

Esme12,

Do you have a reference that states there is no liability in looking at a chart prior to a start of a shift?

Thanks

[Dranger]

I DO NOT CARE. I always come in 30-40 minutes to tweak my run, get hx, dx and lab tests on my brain sheet or quickly get an update from the nurse. It makes my life easier so I will do it. I do not do any patient care though which means call lights or even simple requests.

[Dranger]

I don't really think it is a HIPAA violation. The assignment has already been made and you are preparing yourself for working with those patients.

This is not comparable to the often-used example of a floor nurse perusing the ED or OR patient roster in order to "guess" which patients the floor might receive that shift.

Lol I do that all the time. Sorry not sorry.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

All responses are a moot point. YOUR employer has informed you that this practice is a violation.

End of discussion.

It is a violation because you are "working" off the clock. Your employer then has the responsibility to PAY you for this time or jump through a gazillion hoops as to why they are NOT.

There is NO reason to have to prepare on your own time.. what school taught you to prepare on your own time?

[Spangle Brown]

IMHO....it is still the need to know basis for the care of the patient. Just like the students who look up patients the night before....need to know for the care of the patient.

If she was there and just curious or looking up other patients....then that would be an issue.

Like many of these regulations it is up for interpretation.

That is working. All work should be on the clock. This has been an issue, since nurses work 12 hr shifts with no overage. Yet, they need to make report, etc. They should work 12:30 hrs. 15 before, and 15 after. If it takes longer then that, then a 13 hr shift, with the extra 1 dealing with reports, looking up patient information, etc. Another words, ALL on the clock. No other business gets away with their workers working OFF the clock. Nursing should not either.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

You don't need to be clocked in in order to get worker's comp? I did not know that. Learn something new everyday. :)

Workers comp is dependent on state law, so depends on the state. In my state, you don't. I wouldn't speak for all 50.

As for working off the clock, employer is getting the benefit of you working, they have to pay you or they are violating the law.

As someone else said, it's a moot point anyway. Boss says don't do it, so don't do it.

Learn to look up your info faster and move on with life.

[Paws2people]

Why don't you ask the person who told you not to do it why exactly you can't?

[ddunnrn]

Thanks for the citation. I actually printed the whole shebang out from the web and posted it on my employer's bulletin board. When I later referred to it, they thought that they had posted it. The employer can fire you for being "off the clock" but they can't not pay you for that time. Over the years I've heard the Feds > go after employer violators, to the point of going back 3 years on EVERY employee's time.

[Karou]

I had no idea that this practice was so controversial. I always get to work fifteen minutes early to print my report and look up med times/labs/orders. I do not clock in during this time.

I get a general idea of my patients so that during bedside report I can ask pertinent questions. We have 5-6 patients to do report for and sometimes that includes different nurses, which makes it take longer. Report can take a long time with many interruptions (we have no policy against receiving patients or report from ED/PACU during shift change and it happens all the time). I prefer to have some basic knowledge of my patients to make the process faster.

If I look this information up after the off going nurse leaves then I can't question him/her about any discrepancies or missed orders/labs/meds that I find. There is one nurse in particular that I have to prepare for because she either does not tell me important information, tells incorrect information, or misses really important things. I have already approached management about her after some very unsafe situations occurred (important missed meds, patient requiring transfer to another unit, ect...)

Hmmm. This thread does give me a lot to think about.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

All responses are a moot point. YOUR employer has informed you that this practice is a violation.

End of discussion.

It is a violation because you are "working" off the clock. Your employer then has the responsibility to PAY you for this time or jump through a gazillion hoops as to why they are NOT.

There is NO reason to have to prepare on your own time.. what school taught you to prepare on your own time?

I agree -- the other responses are moot. Your boss has told you what YOUR employer wants to have happen. End of discussion.

You should be able to prepare on the clock -- you just may have to do it a bit faster.