Violation of labor laws- looking up pts prior to clocking in

[telee73]

I've been taught in nursing school to be prepared for your assignment and that means coming into work an extra 30 mins prior to the start of your shift to look up your patients that were assigned. This way, when you start your shift, you have a basic understanding of your patients. When your shift starts, you are then able to ask the appropriate questions to the off-going nurse, do bedside handoffs, pick up where the last nurse left off, and begin your patient care.

I have been doing this for the past 7 years as a RN, but yesterday my manager came up to me and said looking up patients PRIOR to the start of your shift is a violation of labor laws and we are no longer allowed to do this. Looking up patients on the computer prior to clocking-in is considered "working" and is a violation.

Could anyone please shed some light on this for me? Thanks!

[Caffeine_IV]

I don't work off the clock. There is no reason to do so. I clock in at the earliest time allowed and gather my info on the patients. We (all hourly workers) deserve to be paid for every moment of work we do so law or not...I just don't.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

If you are not clocked in, it isn't your patient.

I don't really think it is a HIPAA violation. The assignment has already been made and you are preparing yourself for working with those patients.

This is not comparable to the often-used example of a floor nurse perusing the ED or OR patient roster in order to "guess" which patients the floor might receive that shift.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Technically there are no "federal" laws that prevent this...OSHA either as long as the nurse remains out of patient care...but from the moment you walk into that building you can file workman's comp...for example you slip and fall and break your arm in the parking lot going into work it is workman's comp.

As long as the entry into the work place of "reasonable" arriving early to get a jump start if it is of the employees free will and they are not asked to perform ANY tasks related to the "actual job". This tends to be a grey area. Facilities are becoming increasingly aware of litigation that involve this practice and out of fear and lack of knowledge they make blanket statements knowing most people wont' ask questions and will assume they were told the truth.

HIPAA...If these are the assigned patients and the intent it for learning and the care of the patient there is no violation. That is another blanket statement management uses to cover things they have no explanation for other than they just don't want that done.....is HIPAA.

OP your facility is not liking this practice. They are giving you a clear message that they want you to stop. I would have a talk with your boss and tell him/her that you would like to continue this practice as it helps you not incur incidental overtime at the end of the shift...that your research revealed that it is NOT a federal/state violation if it is initiated by you. However, they can still tell you it is against labor law even if you have proof it isn't a violation. They can decide what ever they wish measure your battles carefully.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

If you are not clocked in, it isn't your patient.

IMHO....it is still the need to know basis for the care of the patient. Just like the students who look up patients the night before....need to know for the care of the patient.

If she was there and just curious or looking up other patients....then that would be an issue.

Like many of these regulations it is up for interpretation.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

You don't need to be clocked in in order to get worker's comp? I did not know that. Learn something new everyday. :)

Technically there are no "federal" laws that prevent this...OSHA either as long as the nurse remains out of patient care...but from the moment you walk into that building you can file workman's comp...for example you slip and fall and break your arm in the parking lot going into work it is workman's comp.

As long as the entry into the work place of "reasonable" arriving early to get a jump start if it is of the employees free will and they are not asked to perform ANY tasks related to the "actual job". This tends to be a grey area. Facilities are becoming increasingly aware of litigation that involve this practice and out of fear and lack of knowledge they make blanket statements knowing most people wont' ask questions and will assume they were told the truth.

HIPAA...If these are the assigned patients and the intent it for learning and the care of the patient there is no violation. That is another blanket statement management uses to cover things they have no explanation for other than they just don't want that done.....is HIPAA.

OP your facility is not liking this practice. They are giving you a clear message that they want you to stop. I would have a talk with your boss and tell him/her that you would like to continue this practice as it helps you not incur incidental overtime at the end of the shift...that your research revealed that it is NOT a federal/state violation if it is initiated by you. However, they can still tell you it is against labor law even if you have proof it isn't a violation. They can decide what ever they wish measure your battles carefully.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Another thing is, if an employee does work off the clock and somehow becomes injured or injures someone else, that is a huge issue. Personally, I do not work one minute off the clock. If something happened, I would not be covered.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

You don't need to be clocked in in order to get worker's comp? I did not know that. Learn something new everyday. :)

NO you don't....Each state has its own workers’ compensation laws, and state courts vary in their interpretations of the “coming and going” rule, the zone of employment and what is work-related.

In determining workers’ compensation coverage, the zone of employment is generally considered to be the employer’s premises, which includes but is not limited to the facilities, parking lot and sidewalks owned or controlled by the employer.

An injury is work-related when it arises out of and in the course of the worker’s employment. It doesn’t matter whether the employee has clocked in or out at the time of the injury. The employee had to be on the premises in order to arrive or leave for employment, and thus the injury arose out of and in the course of employment.

It is considered the "Zone of employment" if owned and operated by the employer and you have to be there to park for work and you are there to clock in....it is considered the zone of employment and can be considered workman's comp.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Another thing is, if an employee does work off the clock and somehow becomes injured or injures someone else, that is a huge issue. Personally, I do not work one minute off the clock. If something happened, I would not be covered.

Never ever do patient care or pass meds unless on the clock...there is liability in that that your malpractice insurance will not cover (ALL NURSES SHOULD HAVE MALPRACTICE INSURANCE)...nor will the hospital . Looking at a chart....no there is no liability.

[ddunnrn]

Labor law is very clear--any work you do for employer must be paid for. That includes answering the phone during your "lunch break", coming in during off hours for disciplinary actions or in services, et al. Over the years I've had to remind various employers of this, and when they realize they are exposed to massive back OT payments, they enforce the law strictly. I worked at a major teaching hospital a while back that installed turnstyles with ID card readers for clocking in and out. That lasted 1 day, because they realized they would have to pay everyone by what the in/out times were, including the time they used to get "free" when people would stay to finish charting and whatnot "off the clock". There is no such thing as working "off the clock"

[Twinmom06, ASN, APN]

I get to work a half hour early to do patient research - never been told about it (but I work noc so I don't know if anyone actually cares). We don't have a time clock (yet) we just have a sign in sheet that we initial that we were there. I have my own report sheet (I don't just print Kardexes as I feel it is a huge waste of paper, plus I really need to look things up to learn them). One of my dayshift coworkers comes in an HOUR early (she's in no later than 0605) and it still takes a half hour to give her report!

[scottaprn]

It absolutely is a violation of labor laws. in particular the fair labor standards act.

" In general, "hours worked" includes all

time an employee must be on duty, or on the

employer's premises or at any other prescribed place of work. Also included is any additional time the

employee is allowed (i.e., suffered or permitted) to

work."

http://www.dol.gov/whd/offtheclock/

If they are allowing you to come in early they must pay you.

[applesxoranges, BSN, RN]

Could they be anticipating the potential for a lawsuit? If they don't let people do any work off the clock then they are good. There are people who purposely try to sue their employers.