Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

Specializes in A variety.
5 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

People who continue to feed into the circular argument that is this thread are simply wandering around in a maze that actually has no exit and was designed that way from the get go. 

Looks like that includes you Horseshoe. Welcome to the maze!

You and many others dislike and disagree with my perspective. I'm OK with that. That is normal, healthy, and how we achieve balance.  I would be worried if everyone thought and felt the same.  

I for one, am glad to be having this discussion even though it gets heated at times. I learned from it.  That was the goal, and what the thread was designed for Horseshoe. It says so in the original post.  There is an exit and you can find it if you want to.  

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3 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Looks like that includes you Horseshoe. Welcome to the maze!

You and many others dislike and disagree with my perspective. I'm OK with that. That is normal, healthy, and how we achieve balance.  I would be worried if everyone thought and felt the same.  

I for one, am glad to be having this discussion even though it gets heated at times. I learned from it.  That was the goal, and what the thread was designed for Horseshoe. It says so in the original post.  There is an exit and you can find it if you want to.  

It's become evident that intention can be quite different from what is stated.  

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15 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

It's become evident that intention can be quite different from what is stated.  

Of course, there's an unstated suggestion. The target audience who believes everything it sees, especially from the nursing forums. Not everyone is capable of reading and comprehending scientific data logically. They'll be just splice a content that supports their confirmation bias.

Crafty skillful poor ? stirrer knows this tactic. They know the average thinkers.

I find this attitude on the part of intentionally unvaccinated health care workers who don't have an actual valid medical reason for not receiving the vaccine (as far as I know there are few actual valid medical reasons for not receiving the vaccine) incredibly cavalier when hospitalized patients have been denied visits from their own close family members for much of the Covid crisis.

Family members/significant others have been prevented from being with their sick or dying loved ones in the hospital because of the RISK that family members/SO could catch Covid in the hospital and spread it to others or could transmit the Covid virus that they are already carrying to others; all the while some health care workers have intentionally chosen, not even due to an actual valid medical reason, not to vaccinate, and are caring for vulnerable patients who have been denied visits from their own  family/SO (who may well be fully vaccinated).

I assume this situation is something that intentionally unvaccinated HCWs' without actual valid medical reasons for not receiving the vaccine feel is acceptable and aren't particularly bothered by.  This situation also applies to other health care facilities where family members/SOs' have been prevented from attending appointments with the patient or visiting the patient due to the risks stated above.  

Specializes in Family Medicine, Obesity, Nutrition.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8360272/table/T2/?report=objectonly

This is a pretty good chart showing the risks vs benefits of the different vaccinations. It is a good tool to discuss and show patients.

Example: For a 19-28 female, J&J vaccination has 5 out 1,000,000 chance of causing thrombosis with thrombocytopenia (TTS) whereas COVID19 infection has a 700 out 1,000,000 chance to be severe enough to warrant hospitalization, a 50 out 1,000,000 chance to require ICU, and a 5 out 1,000,000 chance to cause death. (Also note that '19-28 yr females' are a patient population that is considered one of the most susceptible to TTS and one of the least susceptible to COVID19, however this data still shows profound benefits vs risks.)

Majority of the patients diagnosed with TTS post vaccination have been treated and discharged home.

Obviously there are risks with the vaccination but they are less likely to occur and generally less severe compared to COVID19 infection, especially the Delta variant.

Full article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8360272/#FN1

Specializes in Family Medicine, Obesity, Nutrition.
On 9/4/2021 at 6:30 PM, Susie2310 said:

Family members/significant others have been prevented from being with their sick or dying loved ones in the hospital because of the RISK that family members/SO could catch Covid in the hospital...

This has been such a horrible aspect of this pandemic. Does anyone feel like the hospital system will ever allow loved ones (at least the vaccinated and wearing PPE) in when it is highly suspected that the patient is going to die? No one deserves to die alone and it is happening too much.

Specializes in A variety.
8 minutes ago, Jtveal said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8360272/table/T2/?report=objectonly

This is a pretty good chart showing the risks vs benefits of the different vaccinations. It is a good tool to discuss and show patients.

Example: For a 19-28 female, J&J vaccination has 5 out 1,000,000 chance of causing thrombosis with thrombocytopenia (TTS) whereas COVID19 infection has a 700 out 1,000,000 chance to be severe enough to warrant hospitalization, a 50 out 1,000,000 chance to require ICU, and a 5 out 1,000,000 chance to cause death. (Also note that '19-28 yr females' are a patient population that is considered one of the most susceptible to TTS and one of the least susceptible to COVID19, however this data still shows profound benefits vs risks.)

Majority of the patients diagnosed with TTS post vaccination have been treated and discharged home.

Obviously there are risks with the vaccination but they are less likely to occur and generally less severe compared to COVID19 infection, especially the Delta variant.

Full article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8360272/#FN1

That's good information.

It should be supplemented with more information about the general medical history of those in that statistic.

For example, 700 to 1M hospitalization of that demographic where 300 of the 700 have COPD (not real numbers but a generic example)

Specializes in Family Medicine, Obesity, Nutrition.
16 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

It should be supplemented with more information about the general medical history of those in that statistic.

Agreed, It would be nice to have that information included for patients with vaccination adverse effects and patients poor COVID19 outcomes.

Specializes in Public Health, TB.
12 hours ago, Jtveal said:

This has been such a horrible aspect of this pandemic. Does anyone feel like the hospital system will ever allow loved ones (at least the vaccinated and wearing PPE) in when it is highly suspected that the patient is going to die? No one deserves to die alone and it is happening too much.

Another tragic aspect, especially with the Delta variant, is the growing number of orphans, as 30-40 year olds die from COVID-19. 

 

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2 hours ago, nursej22 said:

Another tragic aspect, especially with the Delta variant, is the growing number of orphans, as 30-40 year olds die from COVID-19. 

 

Yes, a nurse friend of mine with whom I worked when I was. a travel nurse last year -she and her husband both got Covid, prior to the vaccine. He died of Covid, and she died a couple months later with a sudden PE secondary to Covid. They left behind 4 young children.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/despite-protests-98-henry-ford-hospital-workers-get-covid-vaccinations?

As predicted:  Despite protesting, 98% of workers at this huge Detroit medical complex have gotten vaccinated.  Living without a paycheck much harder than getting vaxxed:)

Specializes in oncology.
On 9/1/2021 at 11:34 AM, annaig said:

 

I had COVID 19 and the antibody test results shows that I have a strong natural immunity . However, I am still obligated to take the vaccine in order to continue attending nursing school in person.

I had a full time load of teaching lecture in several courses and clinical practicum. Despite that,  I had the immunization records added to my full time load. What a nightmare it was getting the basic immunization records from students--so many excuses--"my grade school burned down/closed or merged with another school" and no one  kept the  records. One student told me his "mother had 6 children and never kept track of any records" another said "their childhood MD had died". I spent HOURS chasing the students down for the needed records. Eventually we had to establish an ultimatum -- not vaccinations or no clinical for every year. That deadline was always in place (but there was no support from the dean besides telling the students to go to the PHD)  but I too had things to do for the start of clinical. Wouldn't it be easier to get the stuff done before the actual deadline? . I was actually checking records the night before clinical started.  For TB tests I had to look for documentation of  skin tests, blood test or CXRs. . Flu shot  season came around and I had students saying they got the vaccination at work but they did not have a record of it.And now we have Moderna/Pfizer/J&J and you expect me to look at your antibody levels?

I sent the Dean a bill for the time I spent on chasing students down for their immunizations and reviewing incomplete forms. . Surprise! A contract was hired for the next incoming class---they don't take excuses. 

Want to be in healthcare???Then take care of your health requirements to be around vulnerable patients!

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