Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

Updated:   Published

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
32 minutes ago, londonflo said:

I had a full time load of teaching lecture in several courses and clinical practicum. Despite that,  I had the immunization records added to my full time load. What a nightmare it was getting the basic immunization records from students--so many excuses--"my grade school burned down/closed or merged with another school" and no one  kept the  records. One student told me his "mother had 6 children and never kept track of any records" another said "their childhood MD had died". I spent HOURS chasing the students down for the needed records. Eventually we had to establish an ultimatum -- not vaccinations or no clinical for every year. That deadline was always in place (but there was no support from the dean besides telling the students to go to the PHD)  but I too had things to do for the start of clinical. Wouldn't it be easier to get the stuff done before the actual deadline? . I was actually checking records the night before clinical started.  For TB tests I had to look for documentation of  skin tests, blood test or CXRs. . Flu shot  season came around and I had students saying they got the vaccination at work but they did not have a record of it.And now we have Moderna/Pfizer/J&J and you expect me to look at your antibody levels?

I sent the Dean a bill for the time I spent on chasing students down for their immunizations and reviewing incomplete forms. . Surprise! A contract was hired for the next incoming class---they don't take excuses. 

Want to be in healthcare???Then take care of your health requirements to be around vulnerable patients!

It's amazing to me how do many nurses completely forget how critical thinking works once the government mandates something. 

Specializes in NICU.
On 8/15/2021 at 12:49 PM, Curious1997 said:

Tell you what. When you get ill, don't go to Drs or hospitals for tx, because you can't trust them or the science! You get a tooth ache, try a home remedy. You can't trust these people with their fancy science and faked degrees. 

If you do, you are a hypocrite! 

Almost every single thing around you is a result of science! The coffee you drank this morning, science! From the fertilizers to the transportation to the shelf, all science. Logistics and analytics to produce it and get it to you cheaply! Science! 

It gets exponentially harder the more complicated the product becomes. Many people are involved in many specialized areas and they all work hard and have lots of things that they don't want to lose, so they do due diligence on every aspect of their lives, incl their work! 

Not everyone is as gullible as you lot! This isn't an apricot that you buy from a farm stall at the side of the road. Centuries of knowledge from Chemistry to physics and biology culminates in the production of these vaccines. All tried and tested by multiple people in multiple countries and cultures and all reproducible, just like a recipe! 

But no, you boobies ignore all of this because your egos are so fragile and insecure, that you need validation so badly that you are willing to kill yourself, your friends and family and co workers to prove your point! 

And you think that we don't see through you! 

The whole point the OP is making is there is no science. What science? The vaccine hasn't even been out a year yet. People who say "don't go to the doctor or take medication." That just shows how closed minded you guys are and how you do not understand at all. We are against science, in fact, we trust science whole heartedly. We actually want to see more science, more studies, before we put it in our system. And we are definitely not the gullible ones, we aren't the one out here believing everything we see on the TV and taking an experimental vaccine thinking nothing bad will happen. We choose to wait and make sure nothing bad will happen. Moderna has already been pulled in 3 countries for guys under 30 for heart complication. What will happen in another 6 month? A year? 

   And you do realize this vaccine, the mRNA vaccine has been around for a while but never used? Do you know why? Because when they started the animal trials, the rats, every single rat died. Did they keep at it and finally have rats not die before they sent it to humans? Nope. They went from 100% dead rats to human trials. So no, not all tried and true in multiple countries. 

   So when you guys say "oh don't go to the doctor then, don't go to the hospital if you don't believe in science" you point is mute. We do believe in science, now some don't of course, there are some true crazy folks out there, but for the nurses I've seen on allnurses at least, we all tend to hold out for the same reasons. We want more data. We trust our bodies after contracting covid. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
6 hours ago, LisaNICUrn said:

We do believe in science, now some don't of course, there are some true crazy folks out there, but for the nurses I've seen on allnurses at least, we all tend to hold out for the same reasons. We want more data. We trust our bodies after contracting covid. 

If you believed in the science you would be vaccinated already.  The science clearly demonstrates that the vaccines are safe and effective.  Why do you need more data when you are tending to reject the data that indicates that the vaccines are safe and effective already? 

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
On 10/24/2021 at 1:36 PM, londonflo said:

I had a full time load of teaching lecture in several courses and clinical practicum. Despite that,  I had the immunization records added to my full time load. What a nightmare it was getting the basic immunization records from students--so many excuses--"my grade school burned down/closed or merged with another school" and no one  kept the  records. One student told me his "mother had 6 children and never kept track of any records" another said "their childhood MD had died". I spent HOURS chasing the students down for the needed records. Eventually we had to establish an ultimatum -- not vaccinations or no clinical for every year. That deadline was always in place (but there was no support from the dean besides telling the students to go to the PHD)  but I too had things to do for the start of clinical. Wouldn't it be easier to get the stuff done before the actual deadline? . I was actually checking records the night before clinical started.  For TB tests I had to look for documentation of  skin tests, blood test or CXRs. . Flu shot  season came around and I had students saying they got the vaccination at work but they did not have a record of it.And now we have Moderna/Pfizer/J&J and you expect me to look at your antibody levels?

I sent the Dean a bill for the time I spent on chasing students down for their immunizations and reviewing incomplete forms. . Surprise! A contract was hired for the next incoming class---they don't take excuses. 

Want to be in healthcare???Then take care of your health requirements to be around vulnerable patients!

Hard to believe that nursing students could be more careless.  Glad that you were able to get out of this job that should never have been yours in the firsts place.  

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

If you believed in the science you would be vaccinated already.  The science clearly demonstrates that the vaccines are safe and effective.  Why do you need more data when you are tending to reject the data that indicates that the vaccines are safe and effective already? 

Why is Israel on their 4th booster shot if the vaccine is effective? 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/

You never qualify. Just "effective". Period. You are wrong. It's effective UNTIL it isn't. Colon powell had cancer. Dies of covid because he had an impaired immune system. It was not effective for him. According to the article above, Israel is saying they will likely be giving boosters in perpetuity. That is not an effective vaccine. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Why is Israel on their 4th booster shot if the vaccine is effective? 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/

You never qualify. Just "effective". Period. You are wrong. It's effective UNTIL it isn't. Colon powell had cancer. Dies of covid because he had an impaired immune system. It was not effective for him. According to the article above, Israel is saying they will likely be giving boosters in perpetuity. That is not an effective vaccine. 

The vaccines are effective at reducing serious symptoms, risk of hospitalization and death when exposed to the Delta variant.  Vaccines are a cost effective mitigation strategy for large populations during a pandemic.  

5 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The vaccines are effective at reducing serious symptoms, risk of hospitalization and death when exposed to the Delta variant.  Vaccines are a cost effective mitigation strategy for large populations during a pandemic.  

Nice that you try.  

Maybe there are somehow still fence sitters who read this.  And, I suppose limiting damage from those spewing misinformation is worth some effort.

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
12 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The vaccines are effective at reducing serious symptoms, risk of hospitalization and death when exposed to the Delta variant.  Vaccines are a cost effective mitigation strategy for large populations during a pandemic.  

Yep. Except when they aren't. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
20 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Yep. Except when they aren't. 

A flippant come back rather than a thoughtful response reflects your over arching intentions. Vaccination is a better choice than not vaccinating for almost all individuals and communities. 

39 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Why is Israel on their 4th booster shot if the vaccine is effective? 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/

[...]

It wouldn't be the fourth booster, it would be the fourth shot, second booster.

From your quoted article:

Quote

Israel’s national coronavirus czar on Saturday called for the country to begin making preparations to eventually administer fourth doses of the coronavirus vaccine [emphasis added].

“Given that that the virus is here and will continue to be here, we also need to prepare for a fourth injection,” Salman Zarka told Kan public radio [emphasis added].

He did not specify when fourth vaccine shots could eventually be administered [emphasis added].

Zarka also said that the next booster shot may be modified to better protect against new variants of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19, such as the highly infectious Delta strain [emphasis added].

Please try and be more precise when you post.

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
27 minutes ago, chare said:

It wouldn't be the fourth booster, it would be the fourth shot, second booster.

From your quoted article:

Please try and be more precise when you post.

Fair point. My argument stands though. 

37 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

A flippant come back rather than a thoughtful response reflects your over arching intentions. Vaccination is a better choice than not vaccinating for almost all individuals and communities. 

Wrong. Vaccinating is a better option for at -risk populations. 

Specializes in Hospice.
1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Yep. Except when they aren't. 

Quite the pseudo-intellectual anti-science rant going on there. I say pseudo-intellectual because you still don’t seem to grasp the concept of risk reduction. Or perhaps you are deliberately ignoring it. Who knows? As long as it’s your own life and health you’re risking, who cares?

My own LTC’s experience with Covid both pre and post vaccination has been a dramatic demonstration of the difference the vaccine has made in both morbidity and mortality. Pre-vaccine: all residents became Covid positive within two weeks of a worker coming to work sick with the infection, most of them symptomatic. Almost half of them died. More than half of our bedside caregivers out sick with Covid as well. It took about three months before we were able to discontinue extraordinary precautions. Post-vaccine, two incidents, likely the delta variant: first one involving two staff and two residents, second incident a single staff member tested positive, no residents. All involved remained asympomatic and, in both cases, we were able to discontinue special precautions in just over two weeks due to no new positive tests.

Meanwhile, what none of the anti-science rants have bothered to explain is why the vast majority of patients clogging hospitals and dying of Covid now are unvaccinated. Why is that?

My point being that all the “science is crap” rants in the world can’t make the realities of this pandemic disappear, no matter how you gerrymander the facts. And all the whinging about being spoken to harshly isn’t going to make me pretend that your opinion that the vaccine is worthless except for the elderly and infirm is anything but nonsense. 

Besides, impenetrable walls of text are not hiding the fact that there’s a pattern here.

Your whole anti-science schtick is pretty much identical to the tobacco industry’s response back in the sixties  to the proof that smoking tobacco causes cancer. They knew darn well that their product was harmful but they decided to try to invalidate the science in order to protect their profits.

The petrochemical industry did - and is doing - the exact same thing regarding climate change, for exactly the same reasons, even though they have known since the seventies that burning fossil fuels is doing major damage.

Muddying the waters by attacking the science has become a pretty routine PR tactic for industries being called out for causing harm to the public.

Frankly, I think you’ve been had.

So, as both hhern and I have asked more than once, cui bono? Certainly not the vaccine refuseniks, since they continue to run a far greater risk of serious illness and death. So whose agenda is being served by keeping this  country’s citizens chronically sick or dying, with an economy burdened by billions in avoidable healthcare costs?

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