Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[macawake, MSN]

15 hours ago, jive turkey said:

I've talked to so many people who were initially unsure about the vaccine become completely turned off by it thanks to vaccine supporters being rude,  judgemental, insensitive and condescending towards them.

I’m rather surprised that you’ve met many people like that. I can definitely see how someone walking into a store with the intention of buying a new TV or bed linen, decide that heck no, they won’t spend a single dime of their hard-earned money if the the sales associate treats them in a rude and condescending manner. That’s basic human psychology. Most of us won’t reward a store clerk with a sales commission or the company they work for with the sale of goods, if we are treated poorly. 

Personal health choices are fundamentally different. If a person isn’t already vehemently opposed to vaccines, but only unsure if they need to get vaccinated against this particular virus or have concerns due to something they’ve read on the internet, they will likely not get deterred just because someone is rude to them. Especially not if that someone is someone anonymous on the internet.

I said that healthcare decisions are different. That’s because with personal healthcare choices, we quite literally have skin in the game. If a person has an opinion about vaccines in general that isn’t completely negative to start with, which would make that someone unlikely to ever get vaccinated against anything, then a person will not choose not to vaccinate just because someone’s rude to them. They’d find a better source to consult. For the simple reason that not finding out more about the vaccines simply because someone was rude, would be cutting one’s nose off to spite one’s face. I’m going to risk my own health and the health of my loved ones just to show that uppity nurse or physician, said no one ever. 

I’ve been approached by several neighbors who don’t even know that I’m a nurse, asking about the vaccine and if I’ve been vaccinated. They had some questions about them and after we talked for a while they’ve all chosen to get vaccinated. One even proudly showed me the tiny bandaid on her upper arm after having received her first dose. I find it easy to inform people in real life, but that could be because real life people don’t usually accost me on the streets or barge in through my front door, spouting lies and conspiracy theories, convinced that they are real. In real life, the people I meet actually ask questions. 

[amoLucia]

This post is becoming almost as closely nasty as the other one. And I get a headache trying to sift thru all the more 'polite' rhetoric.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, amoLucia said:

This post is becoming almost as closely nasty as the other one. And I get a headache trying to sift thru all the more 'polite' rhetoric.

 

It isn't very nice or polite to not vaccinate, work in healthcare while not vaccinated, and make dishonest excuses for not vaccinating. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:56 PM, jive turkey said:

I've definitely provided information and sources to help you understand why Im not 100% convinced a previously infected person MUST be vaccinated. If they want to,  cool. If they don't,  I can appreciate why not. 

I've provided sources that support doing it, I've spoken to both sides of the coin, I've said people who had or never had the virus should definitely talk to their provider about getting it. I wear a mask in public,  keep 6+feet, avoid crowds, wash n sanitize often. 

You've been one sided on the issue.  Unlike you, I'm not making it my place to tell people only my perspective is correct.   There's not much left to discuss with you.  When you can provide that info I asked you for,  let me know.  

Not sure why you even need to ask this question.  Anti-bodies from infection decline after time.  Right now we have no accurate way to test ourselves for where we are on the curve.  Multiple sites have reported that six to eight months is the usual time for protection after infection (but it also depends on the severity of you illness.  So we are not anywhere near ending this thing and if you have Covid more than 6 or 8 months ago, you should probably get a "booster" with vaccine which will provide you with antibodies that might tide you over until our infections rates are acceptable low.  It's really not hard to figure out.  What we REALLY need is an efficient and reliable quantitative antibody test that we can do at home or easy to access testing sites.  We don't so it's important to get vaccinated after an infection.

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

So your intentions were not ever to submit valid reasons to not vaccinate? The entire premise of this thread is to provide valid reasons to not vaccinate...now you are suggesting that such a premise does not imply that you were going to submit articles or citations which supported your decision not to vaccinate.  Does that mean that personal opinion and feelings that are contrary to public health recommendations count as valid reasons to not vaccinate, in your view? It seems like that's what you are saying.  

Nope. And I'm not going to keep explaining it to you.  You're approval or understanding is not required.  

Go ahead and tell yourself that you're correct, nobody else's perspectives or sources or information count or are good enough.  I'll let you have that?

That's the last of my replies to you on this thread but I do thank you for participating.  

 

 

[GordonGekko, MSN]

Freedom is a valid reason not to vaccinate.  People should have the choice.  Otherwise is authoritarian and fascist which is the way the Alt-Left is going towards these days.  

That being said employers should have the right to mandate vaccinations.  If the employee doesn't like their policy they are free to leave the company and start their own.  That is the beauty of America everyone has equal opportunity and oppression does not exist in any way, shape, or form.

Personally I am vaccinated and promote it to all of my patients.  

[jive turkey]

6 minutes ago, subee said:

Not sure why you even need to ask this question.  Anti-bodies from infection decline after time.  Right now we have no accurate way to test ourselves for where we are on the curve.  Multiple sites have reported that six to eight months is the usual time for protection after infection (but it also depends on the severity of you illness.  So we are not anywhere near ending this thing and if you have Covid more than 6 or 8 months ago, you should probably get a "booster" with vaccine which will provide you with antibodies that might tide you over until our infections rates are acceptable low.  It's really not hard to figure out.  What we REALLY need is an efficient and reliable quantitative antibody test that we can do at home or easy to access testing sites.  We don't so it's important to get vaccinated after an infection.

Thank you for your feedback.  If you don't know why I need to ask this question start with the original post and you'll understand better. I highlighted two words in your response that speak to the concerns I pointed out.   "Might" and "probably" alone is not a strong enough reason to say one should not have concerns.  You and I can certainly exchange articles with varying reports of how long immunity lasts. There's no conclusive answer.  I shared an article demonstrating vaccination doesn't benefit those with natural immunity,  and another to the contrary.  The CDC says reinfection is rare (~%1)  Nobody seems to be reporting the prevelance of reinfected people being hospitalized and/or dying.  

Considering the variety of contradicting and varying information, all sources stating more time is needed to get further clarification,  extremely low reinfection rates, e admissions and dying among the reinfected, help me understand your perspective  someone should not have concerns and question it before making a decision.  

[toomuchbaloney]

On 8/15/2021 at 8:36 AM, jive turkey said:

The challenge is,  there are articles that speak to the contrary. 

Share those articles. 

[guest1163268]

13 hours ago, macawake said:

I’m rather surprised that you’ve met many people like that. I can definitely see how someone walking into a store with the intention of buying a new TV or bed linen, decide that heck no, they won’t spend a single dime of their hard-earned money if the the sales associate treats them in a rude and condescending manner. That’s basic human psychology. Most of us won’t reward a store clerk with a sales commission or the company they work for with the sale of goods, if we are treated poorly. 

Personal health choices are fundamentally different. If a person isn’t already vehemently opposed to vaccines, but only unsure if they need to get vaccinated against this particular virus or have concerns due to something they’ve read on the internet, they will likely not get deterred just because someone is rude to them. Especially not if that someone is someone anonymous on the internet.

I said that healthcare decisions are different. That’s because with personal healthcare choices, we quite literally have skin in the game. If a person has an opinion about vaccines in general that isn’t completely negative to start with, which would make that someone unlikely to ever get vaccinated against anything, then a person will not choose not to vaccinate just because someone’s rude to them. They’d find a better source to consult. For the simple reason that not finding out more about the vaccines simply because someone was rude, would be cutting one’s nose off to spite one’s face. I’m going to risk my own health and the health of my loved ones just to show that uppity nurse or physician, said no one ever. 

I’ve been approached by several neighbors who don’t even know that I’m a nurse, asking about the vaccine and if I’ve been vaccinated. They had some questions about them and after we talked for a while they’ve all chosen to get vaccinated. One even proudly showed me the tiny bandaid on her upper arm after having received her first dose. I find it easy to inform people in real life, but that could be because real life people don’t usually accost me on the streets or barge in through my front door, spouting lies and conspiracy theories, convinced that they are real. In real life, the people I meet actually ask questions. 

Personally, I don't care if it's Hitler or Trump trying to sell me the television. I would have done my research beforehand and then will assess the salesperson of their knowledge and projection, before I take anything into consideration re what they say or believe. They could be purple with ten arms and I wouldn't notice. I don't see why it matters if someone is rude or obnoxious, it's not my business. I'm there for a product or information. I don't judge books by their covers, only reviews and only from selected sources. I think it says more about you as a person, if you react to someone else's emotional state, instead of minding your own business and getting what you want done! 

I've stopped trying to convince the general public these days and only if mandated and the patients being receptive, will I try to convince them. 

My take is, if people are that stupid and can't see that Covid vaccines are about a year old with very few side effects or complications, which generally shows up within the first two months I believe, it means that they are not interested or just cannot be convinced! 

There are some conspiracy theories that on the surface appears valid and when researched are definitely valid, like Russian interference in the election etc, but Covid vaccines have conclusively proven that they are safe and effective! 

[momoneypls, RN]

If you are treating patients and you are not vaccinated and they are not vaccinated, you might be unwittingly spreading Covid to them and everyone else you come into contact with. The vaccine does not kill you, but Covid does. What does this say about you as a healthcare provider?  Can you really provide a reason why someone cannot get a vaccine for Covid? There are epipens at injection sites, and for every crappy reaction, there is a person recovering from Covid who has a DVT, PE, or autonomic dysfunction for the rest of her life. Really: at this point, with the Delta variant infecting the vaccinated, there is no reason. None. 

Your patient might be room temp IQ, but that's not contagious...or is it?

[HJH50]

 

What do you mean by "the vaccine does not kill you, but Covid does?" Per VAERS reporting, in one year COVID vaccines have killed 6,506 people. Of ALL vaccine deaths since 1990 (of which there are 17,132 from 190 vaccine types), COVID vaccines account for 37.97% of all vaccine-related deaths. Moreover, the percent of permanent disability events from COVID vaccines accounts for 28.9% of ALL permanent disabilities from vaccinations. So, forgive me if I am concerned about putting something in my body that has a higher percentage of death and permanent disability than all other vaccinations combined.

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, HJH50 said:

What do you mean by "the vaccine does not kill you, but Covid does?" Per VAERS reporting, in one year COVID vaccines have killed 6,506 people. Of ALL vaccine deaths since 1990 (of which there are 17,132 from 190 vaccine types), COVID vaccines account for 37.97% of all vaccine-related deaths. Moreover, the percent of permanent disability events from COVID vaccines accounts for 28.9% of ALL permanent disabilities from vaccinations. So, forgive me if I am concerned about putting something in my body that has a higher percentage of death and permanent disability than all other vaccinations combined.

Dunning-Kruger, anyone?