Unvaccinated: Indefensible

[guest1168940]

The choice to not take the COVID vaccine I feel is not defendable. The facts are that 99% of hospitalizations/deaths due to COVID are unvaccinated patients currently. This has caused a more severe strain on a already extremely stressed hospital staff, shortage of equipment and services, injury and death from other causes due to delay of care and suffering of everyone involved in the hospitalized COVID patient among other issues. Virologists report delta and other strains are accelerated and created due to the numbers of unvaccinated people in the US. The fact that vaccination rates have only increased about 20% since July with the information available is appalling, while there are 130k new infections daily in the US. This should not be a personal or individual choice and appears due to unfounded anxiety, medical or religious exception and or politics. 

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

2 hours ago, MunoRN said:

The survey was by PRRI, not Forbes.  PRRI is generally considered to be a balanced and competent when it comes to survey data.  Just in general, if you can cite problems with the survey or the resulting data then fell free to offer that.  Otherwise dismissing something offhandedly because a source that isn't a preferred source reported on the data isn't really productive.

I don't think anyone would argue that there are those opposed to Covid vaccines in all political groups, but I don't think you can argue that Republican politicians are only equally likely to either tacitly or overtly support anti-vax and/or ant-mask sentiments.  It's certainly more prevalent at the state level than with federal-level Republicans, but it seems fairly obvious these are more commonly Republican politicians than Democrat politicians taking part in this.

The reason for my intentional dig at his Forbes article was not really about Forbes, but some earlier comments he made regarding scientific sources etc.  I agree Forbes is a reputable publication, albeit, more so on other topics. And I agree, some Republican politicians could be MUCH more engaged in encouraging the vaccine.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, CamaroGirl13 said:

It is my understanding that COVID is actually not preventable nor does the vaccine prevent you from getting it. I believe I read in previous messages between you and others on this particular subject and that it was stated that the vaccine is supposed to decrease the severity or something to that effect. I would also point out that AIDS could also be labeled as preventable unless it is contracted in the event of birth or receipt of contaminated blood products.

This coronavirus illness is preventable with vaccination, HIV is not.  All vaccines work to prevent serious illness or death from infection.  No vaccine claims to protect the individual from exposure, rather it reduces the likelihood that an exposure will result in infection or that infection will be serious.  

 

1 hour ago, CamaroGirl13 said:

This leads to my question back to you: Should you have the right to berate/judge/demean/demoralize or talk poorly about that person you see walking around the grocery store and judge that person because “you know better” and they are making what you have surmised to be a mistake?  No, you don’t.

Did I suggest that I have the right to be rude to strangers in a grocery store? No I have not.  I have witnessed some very rude and unmasked individuals here in Alaska. A couple of ridiculous videos from Fairbanks were widely shared.  It was embarrassing. 

 Since I have not claimed that right it seems a bit of an assumption on your part to then proceed to chastise me for that imagined behavior. Further, this negative assumption about my imagined behavior, as if from some morally elevated position, is exactly the "you know better" attitude that you are seemingly criticizing.  

It matters that people believe untruths, disinformation and propaganda about a pandemic and the mitigation strategies, including vaccination.  How it matters is being played out in hospitals across the country.  Nursing professionals are bold in attempting to dispel fears and falsehoods with facts and evidence while others seem inspired to elevate them. .  

[guest1163268]

I think a lot of of it stems from the arrogance of Americans being fed the *** lies by the govt, that we're the best country, the best people and we are so special, yet our roads and bridges are third world and we still have so many cities that has telephone, cable lines etc running on posts that the slightest breeze or rainstorm interrupts, pipes and paint with lead poisoning our people, companies dumping their cancer giving toxins in our backyards  because of lobbying, in almost no way different to any criminal organization buying political favors etc. 

And we are such utter morons that we can be fooled by one of the most glaringly, stupid man that ever existed, to the point that 40% of the population voted for him and jackasses invade the capital on his insistence and ignore all the failed bankruptcies, racist, misogynistic, pedophilic behaviors that so obviously pointed out his character! 

We buy products because a fat bottomed, obvious prostitute based on her behaviors and her family's need to be given attention and how many different flawed characters are now influencers peddling products and Americans just lap it up because as long as it's bright and shiny and loud, we're in! Give it to me! Here's my soul, I'll pay for it later. 2008, sub prime mortgages? A system based on who has the most credit and not on who can actually pay for it! 

Maybe, if the CDC package the vaccine in bright pink with gold trimmings in a musical box, the GOP, right leaning evangelicals and Hitler believers, would be more willing to take it! Or we get the most hypocritical, whitest, loudest, psychopathic influencers, like the evangelical preachers to tout the vaccine, they would be more inclined to take it! Believe me those evangelicals would sell their mothers for money! 

The contempt and disdain I have for my fellow American's intelligence is practically boundless at this point! A nation of burger Kings and McDonald's! Form a line for a new chicken sandwich from a drive through fast food place because they are so obviously a gourmet establishment! Give people money or alcohol to persuade them to take the vaccine! Believe the man who used bone spurs as an excuse to not defend his country! 

Yup sirree, we are the brightest and the best! 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

2 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

I think a lot of of it stems from the arrogance of Americans being fed the *** lies by the govt, that we're the best country, the best people and we are so special, yet our roads and bridges are third world and we still have so many cities that has telephone, cable lines etc running on posts that the slightest breeze or rainstorm interrupts, pipes and paint with lead poisoning our people, companies dumping their cancer giving toxins in our backyards  because of lobbying, in almost no way different to any criminal organization buying political favors etc. 

And we are such utter morons that we can be fooled by one of the most glaringly, stupid man that ever existed, to the point that 40% of the population voted for him and jackasses invade the capital on his insistence and ignore all the failed bankruptcies, racist, misogynistic, pedophilic behaviors that so obviously pointed out his character! 

We buy products because a fat bottomed, obvious prostitute based on her behaviors and her family's need to be given attention and how many different flawed characters are now influencers peddling products and Americans just lap it up because as long as it's bright and shiny and loud, we're in! Give it to me! Here's my soul, I'll pay for it later. 2008, sub prime mortgages? A system based on who has the most credit and not on who can actually pay for it! 

Maybe, if the CDC package the vaccine in bright pink with gold trimmings in a musical box, the GOP, right leaning evangelicals and Hitler believers, would be more willing to take it! Or we get the most hypocritical, whitest, loudest, psychopathic influencers, like the evangelical preachers to tout the vaccine, they would be more inclined to take it! Believe me those evangelicals would sell their mothers for money! 

The contempt and disdain I have for my fellow American's intelligence is practically boundless at this point! A nation of burger Kings and McDonald's! Form a line for a new chicken sandwich from a drive through fast food place because they are so obviously a gourmet establishment! Give people money or alcohol to persuade them to take the vaccine! Believe the man who used bone spurs as an excuse to not defend his country! 

Yup sirree, we are the brightest and the best! 

I love your idea of Ivanka packages.  Put some herbal Viagra in them and people would pay to get vaxxed.  What's especially depressing here, though, is how many nurses are promoting vaccine hesitance with their B.S.  and ignorance.  I can see the ignorance coming through when people post here without reading the thread so that basic knowledge must be posted over and over again (like VAERS).  They are more interested in actually wasting electrons than spending the time it takes to actually learn something useful.

[Guest67138]

18 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

This coronavirus illness is preventable with vaccination, HIV is not.  All vaccines work to prevent serious illness or death from infection.  No vaccine claims to protect the individual from exposure, rather it reduces the likelihood that an exposure will result in infection or that infection will be serious.  

 

Did I suggest that I have the right to be rude to strangers in a grocery store? No I have not.  I have witnessed some very rude and unmasked individuals here in Alaska. A couple of ridiculous videos from Fairbanks were widely shared.  It was embarrassing. 

 Since I have not claimed that right it seems a bit of an assumption on your part to then proceed to chastise me for that imagined behavior. Further, this negative assumption about my imagined behavior, as if from some morally elevated position, is exactly the "you know better" attitude that you are seemingly criticizing.  

It matters that people believe untruths, disinformation and propaganda about a pandemic and the mitigation strategies, including vaccination.  How it matters is being played out in hospitals across the country.  Nursing professionals are bold in attempting to dispel fears and falsehoods with facts and evidence while others seem inspired to elevate them. .  

I can assure you that my entire post was used as an example scenario, not addressing you personally. At no point did I make any assumptions regarding you or anybody in this thread. I haven’t chastised you either. Nor have I said that you have done anything to anybody. I don’t know you as you don’t know me. Have you never had an adult conversation with someone who was explaining their viewpoint and put you in the scenario that they used as an example? I know that it is often difficult to relay or judge the tone of a conversation in texts and in this case posts, but you really don’t have to be so incredulously defensive. With that said, I do get the impression that you aggressively responded to my post as if you were already pugnaciously preparing yourself. I’ve also noticed you’re quick to counter with the same elevated moral high ground that you more or less insinuate that I have. But I digress. My original posts were all to point out the witch hunt and judgment that’s going on against people who make their own choices during this crisis we are in and the importance of medical professionals maintaining their professionalism and compassion for patients and caregivers even when they use the brain the good Lord gave them to make a decision we disagree with and despite educating them with qualified medical expertise. I could do this all day, and from the sound of it, you could too. However, I’m not here to attempt to change your mind or your views/opinions to mine. And I can assure you that you won’t be changing mine. I really do enjoy the debating when the subject is interesting. Unfortunately, I keep finding myself looking at and getting bored with the same tiresome regurgitated accusations of “spreading uncertainty” and providing “misinformation” as well as the abundant amount of statistics that are often used to prove one’s point or opinion. Those repetitiously mundane statistics quote the yawn-inducing Democrat-Republican colloquy or the Science-Religious Faith exchange or the masked-unmasked debate… There will always be opposing sides to everything as long as mankind exists. There is however one commonality that we should all be agreeing on, and that is the treatment of other human beings and respecting each other not only for our similarities but also our differences. We should be respecting that we won’t always agree and will often have differences in opinion, choosing to, for lack of a better term, get over it instead of talking to them with condescension and disdain. Every time someone spouts off statistics to me in attempt to strengthen their argument or to sway my opinion and stance over to theirs, I really want to explain to them that statistics is always subjective and does not deserve the bread credibility it’s often given. With that said, I’ve got some chores to attend to. I hope everyone has a good day. 

[heron, ASN, RN]

Here’s an anecdote for y’all: last October, my LTC was devastated when COVID-19 got into my building. In less than a month, all residents and more than half the staff were infected. Almost half our residents died. We didn’t come out of quarantine until February..

Since the vaccine became available we have achieved a rate of over 90% of staff and over 80% of residents fully vaccinated.

On Sept. 3 this year, two staff and 2 residents tested positive for Covid, likely the delta variant. None are sympomatic. No new positives since. If the next round of testing show no new positives, we’re off quarantine - in less than a month. Herd immunity at it’s best.

This is why unvaccinated is indefensible. It’s also why so many of us are angry, exhausted and no longer have the patience to pussyfoot around, coddling the feelings of the unvaccinated. The Mother Theresa crowd can take their specious justifications for willful ignorance, and their victim cards over being spoken to harshly and shove it all.

Covid, like climate change, doesn’t care about your feelings. It doesn’t care about your opinions, valid or otherwise. It doesn’t care about what’s fair, ideologically correct or economically advantageous. It doesn’t care about anything at all except reproducing itself. To do that, it must circumvent whatever defenses the target organism has in place. More defenses = harder to invade. Few or no defense = easier to invade - and kill. Basic risk reduction.

This is also one of the basic mechanisms of natural selection, which, incidentally, also doesn’t care about your hurt feelings either. Those who fail to grasp the need for risk reduction are more likely to die and take themselves out of the gene pool. If it doesn’t happen with this pandemic, it will during the next … and there will be a next.

[guest1168940]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:53 AM, heron said:

Here’s an anecdote for y’all: last October, my LTC was devastated when COVID-19 got into my building. In less than a month, all residents and more than half the staff were infected. Almost half our residents died. We didn’t come out of quarantine until February..

Since the vaccine became available we have achieved a rate of over 90% of staff and over 80% of residents fully vaccinated.

Thank you very much for working so hard under such tough conditions, I am sorry for the extreme difficult environment you have worked in and hope the families, residents and management are grateful to you and the other staff as well!

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:11 AM, hospiceNurse2012 said:

When I walked into my university library, I saw a young woman from head to toe covered (not even her eyes showing) in black... black to conceal every inch of her... because of her lack of wearing whatever color of clothing, or, whether or not to show any part of her body.. lack of freedom..

I was going to just go on by and ignore this, especially since it's an older post now but I found I just couldn't let it go. This is most certainly not lack of freedom. Quite the opposite in fact. Having the freedom to express one's religious views is a basic cornerstone of the freedoms the USA was founded on. Many Muslim women wear the hijab by choice, many also choose the more extreme full body coverings. 

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:44 AM, RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN said:

I know the county I worked EMS for before becoming an RN started having a wellness program and insurance premium rates went up for folks who did not make progress in lowering A1C, losing weight, lowering BP,etc. You are spot on. Until things like this become a priority, it's like fingers in holes in a dike springing leaks, although we are probably past that point with the guy running out of fingers to plug all the holes already.

My former employer tried that for a couple of years. I say tried because so few people participated, opting instead to accept the higher insurance premium rather than allow an insurance company so much control that they cancelled the program. 

For me it was an easy choice to not participate. I will admit I am still a smoker and as such it didn't matter how I scored on the rest of their metrics I was still paying the higher premium.  My current employer doesn't require jumping through a bunch of hoops to meet certain numbers however I do pay a flat rate increase in my premium because I smoke.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

3 hours ago, kbrn2002 said:

I was going to just go on by and ignore this, especially since it's an older post now but I found I just couldn't let it go. This is most certainly not lack of freedom. Quite the opposite in fact. Having the freedom to express one's religious views is a basic cornerstone of the freedoms the USA was founded on. Many Muslim women wear the hijab by choice, many also choose the more extreme full body coverings. 

We've just had a young muslim woman join the police force (because someone designed a hijab that could be worn on active duty) (NZ). 

Its a tough one, I've heard some people say "I was forced to wear the hijab/niqab so it should be banned". I think like all things the hijab can be miused and abused, if thats what someone chooses to do who am I to judge

[Guest219794]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:22 PM, CamaroGirl13 said:

I can assure you that my entire post was used as an example scenario, not addressing you personally. At no point did I make any assumptions regarding you or anybody in this thread. I haven’t chastised you either. Nor have I said that you have done anything to anybody. I don’t know you as you don’t know me. Have you never had an adult conversation with someone who was explaining their viewpoint and put you in the scenario that they used as an example? I know that it is often difficult to relay or judge the tone of a conversation in texts and in this case posts, but you really don’t have to be so incredulously defensive. With that said, I do get the impression that you aggressively responded to my post as if you were already pugnaciously preparing yourself. I’ve also noticed you’re quick to counter with the same elevated moral high ground that you more or less insinuate that I have. But I digress. My original posts were all to point out the witch hunt and judgment that’s going on against people who make their own choices during this crisis we are in and the importance of medical professionals maintaining their professionalism and compassion for patients and caregivers even when they use the brain the good Lord gave them to make a decision we disagree with and despite educating them with qualified medical expertise. I could do this all day, and from the sound of it, you could too. However, I’m not here to attempt to change your mind or your views/opinions to mine. And I can assure you that you won’t be changing mine. I really do enjoy the debating when the subject is interesting. Unfortunately, I keep finding myself looking at and getting bored with the same tiresome regurgitated accusations of “spreading uncertainty” and providing “misinformation” as well as the abundant amount of statistics that are often used to prove one’s point or opinion. Those repetitiously mundane statistics quote the yawn-inducing Democrat-Republican colloquy or the Science-Religious Faith exchange or the masked-unmasked debate… There will always be opposing sides to everything as long as mankind exists. There is however one commonality that we should all be agreeing on, and that is the treatment of other human beings and respecting each other not only for our similarities but also our differences. We should be respecting that we won’t always agree and will often have differences in opinion, choosing to, for lack of a better term, get over it instead of talking to them with condescension and disdain. Every time someone spouts off statistics to me in attempt to strengthen their argument or to sway my opinion and stance over to theirs, I really want to explain to them that statistics is always subjective and does not deserve the bread credibility it’s often given. With that said, I’ve got some chores to attend to. I hope everyone has a good day. 

7 posts.

Can somebody please explain the correlation between post count and ideology?  

How is it that I can see the talking points and guess the post count?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

45 minutes ago, hherrn said:

7 posts.

Can somebody please explain the correlation between post count and ideology?  

How is it that I can see the talking points and guess the post count?

Because they say things like statistics are subjective so we shouldn't  trust statistics because they are "always subjective."  Obviously thus person has never taken a course in statistics and believes  that statisticians talk about their feelings.