Unvaccinated: Indefensible

[guest1168940]

The choice to not take the COVID vaccine I feel is not defendable. The facts are that 99% of hospitalizations/deaths due to COVID are unvaccinated patients currently. This has caused a more severe strain on a already extremely stressed hospital staff, shortage of equipment and services, injury and death from other causes due to delay of care and suffering of everyone involved in the hospitalized COVID patient among other issues. Virologists report delta and other strains are accelerated and created due to the numbers of unvaccinated people in the US. The fact that vaccination rates have only increased about 20% since July with the information available is appalling, while there are 130k new infections daily in the US. This should not be a personal or individual choice and appears due to unfounded anxiety, medical or religious exception and or politics. 

[toomuchbaloney]

12 minutes ago, RKM2021 said:

Yes, because they said they would not taken it then. Fucci said it was not wise to rush a vaccine at the end of August now it is OK? Take the vaccine that came less than six weeks later. The CDC hurt themselves in my opinion by telling everyone that cloth mask would work and that they did not need to buy a N95, then coming out and admitting they said that so doctors and nurses would have enough mask.  I get that, but that wasn't the way to do it. 

Also the CDC and the WHO have slightly different information about COVID. 

The WHO states that most people who get covid recovery and mild to moderate symptoms. So I can see someone reading that and saying well then why do I need  a vaccine. The WHO also states you should not exercise wearing a mask. 

That's not what they said. 

Yes...lay people get confused and that confusion is compounded by self identified health professionals who elevate and encourage thinking which leads to vaccine delay or refusal. Yes, the CDC had four years of substandard leadership that was uncharacteristically influenced by political messaging and goals. The result has been devastating.  

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

6 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'm referencing our discussions here. I'm referencing the political leadership of the nation and the states.  I'm referencing the demographics and data which reflect who is refusing to vaccinate.  The data doesn't lie. No credible source is saying only republicans are refusing. Republicans are more likely than Democrats to remain unvaccinated...that's just the numbers. 

Is there a single state on the least vaccinated states that is blue?  The states with the highest number of cases are among the states with the worst educational systems.  It all goes together.  The most uneducated people are the most gullible who believed Trump with his lis about Covid.  CDC doesn't look too good either but they didn't deliberately attempt to dampen mitigation of the disease which was just evil....not the same continuum as bungling.

[Guest1171160]

10 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

That's not what they said. 

Yes...lay people get confused and that confusion is compounded by self identified health professionals who elevate and encourage thinking which leads to vaccine delay or refusal. Yes, the CDC had four years of substandard leadership that was uncharacteristically influenced by political messaging and goals. The result has been devastating.  

On March 27, Fauci spoke to a San Francisco NBC affiliate. He said given the shortage of masks, the general public ranked last behind doctors and nurses, and people who are infected.

"When we say you don't need to wear a mask, what we're really saying is make sure you prioritize it first for the people who need the mask," Fauci said. "In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then you could get some degree of protection, but make sure you prioritize it well."

Direct Quote above

[Guest1171160]

Here is another example of mistrust. 

How long is the Pfizer vaccine effective for?

An April 2021 press release from Pfizer notes that protection from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine lasts at least 6 months.

 

So Pfizer is pushing boosters but the CDC says under 65 doesn't need them. 

Pfizer says you do. Just crazy conflicting information

 

[toomuchbaloney]

8 minutes ago, RKM2021 said:

On March 27, Fauci spoke to a San Francisco NBC affiliate. He said given the shortage of masks, the general public ranked last behind doctors and nurses, and people who are infected.

"When we say you don't need to wear a mask, what we're really saying is make sure you prioritize it first for the people who need the mask," Fauci said. "In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then you could get some degree of protection, but make sure you prioritize it well."

Direct Quote above

There's not really anything controversial about his statement.  What's controversial is how woefully unprepared this country was for a pandemic and how underfunded and under valued public health systems in our states are to this day. It's sad that our government at both the federal and state levels didn't invest in the public health infrastructure and confidence that could have saved uncountable lives during this pandemic. But here we are.  

[toomuchbaloney]

7 minutes ago, RKM2021 said:

Here is another example of mistrust. 

How long is the Pfizer vaccine effective for?

An April 2021 press release from Pfizer notes that protection from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine lasts at least 6 months.

 

So Pfizer is pushing boosters but the CDC says under 65 doesn't need them. 

Pfizer says you do. Just crazy conflicting information

 

You should quote the information so that I can clearly understand what is so murky or suspicious or conflicting.  

Joint Statement from HHS Public Health and Medical Experts on COVID-19 Booster Shots

I'm retired.  Sometimes I let these things stream in the background while I'm going about my chores.  

[londonflo]

1 hour ago, RKM2021 said:

On March 27, Fauci spoke to a San Francisco NBC affiliate. He said given the shortage of masks, the general public ranked last behind doctors and nurses, and people who are infected.

Ummm. Fauci spoke on March 27, 2020. The world is in a better place with PPE. But continuing to hold on an advisory from March 2020, when masks are freely available in September 2021, is asinine. Grow up, get with the program, learn what is currently happening, buy a newspaper, attend a hospital education program....connect with the world in Fall 2021.

[guest1168940]

3 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

On the fence? How much more clearly can the scientific community put it, getting vaccinated prevents death 99.7% of the time AND prevents creation of mutations that we may not be able keep ahead of. Sorry these hold outs are killing themselves and others. 

[MunoRN, RN]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:20 PM, imppress said:

After Provincetown, the expecytation of vaccine preventin g sickness were no longer a ready boast.

Suddenly hospitalization is all that mattered and it was still great to get vaccinated because you'd avoid the hospital, even if you did get sick.

I was actually okay with that. We don't mandate the flu shot because it "only" kills 60,000 per year. Most in high risk groups.

We don't care much about flu infections, as annoying as they are.

The previous wisdom claimed the vaccine was stro9nger protection because of higher antibodies than naturally immune people.

Come to find out that naturally immune people are seriously sick with COVID (getting reinfected, in the case of the naturally immune) 2% less often, despite lower antibodies.

So if naturally immune people have lower antibodies now, I dare say I care even less about low antibodies than I do about infections, which I care less about than hospitalization.

The low antibody counts troubled me in March, until we got more relevant data to determine the correlation of high antibodies and low hospital admission is sketchy, to be charitable.

It would seem other factors (T and B cell activity?) are critically important to avoiding hospitalization because natural immunity has been proven to be stronger and longer lasting. Provincetown victims had less than six months between vaccination and serious (but not hospitalization-worthy) illness. If naturally immune patients' immunity petered out so quickly, you don't think we would have heard about that from the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers? 

The Israel data seems to indicate naturally immune people are in pretty good shape (subject to the same comorbidities that kneecap vaccine efficacy)

And you're of course free to whatever opinion you choose, but if you're pushing a view that infection-aquired immunity to a coronavirus lasts forever based on a disbelief in the foundation of immunology; that it's antibodies that produce the protective effects of acquired immunity, then that disclaimer should probably included with your claims.  

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:05 PM, capitalsfan83 said:

That was the best article with evidence based research you just shared. You should really be proud of yourself.  
 

Wasn't sure whether to up thumb or laugh! Liked your reply!

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

4 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

 Most of the anti vaxxs are republicans right?? 

Painting with a broad brush - I have found that the Anti vax movement in general (Not just the Covid Vaccine) is well represented on all sides of the political aisle as well as a whole bunch of Hollywood Celebs that also happen to be Scientologists. 

As a libertarian I have a huge distrust of big government but am a strong believer in vacciantion. 

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

9 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

Painting with a broad brush - I have found that the Anti vax movement in general (Not just the Covid Vaccine) is well represented on all sides of the political aisle as well as a whole bunch of Hollywood Celebs that also happen to be Scientologists. 

As a libertarian I have a huge distrust of big government but am a strong believer in vacciantion. 

Agree with your broad brush remark. Anti-Vaxxers in the COVID issue are wide spread across the board. What groups is the least vaccinated? I won't say who it is but the data is readily available, but I would say they comprise a large group of who Biden would expect to be his core voting bloc. They really don't trust the government and medical community for good reasons one need only look at history for. That said, I am Libertarian as well,and  pro-vaccine yet anti-mandating it. The generic anti-vax nutcases are probably not Republicans if an honest poll were taken. I have read more on-line anti-vax  stuff from celebrities' than anyone else. They are notoriously not Republicans.