Threatened by patient

amoLucia · May 31, 2015

To OP - just asking. You did fill out an incident report??? I'd do one belatedly if nec.

And what state are you in? I remember doing google some time back re filing legal charges for attacks on HC workers (NJ had just broadened its law). It might still be poss to do so.

SapphireJulzRN · May 31, 2015

When something like that happens at my hospital, we always call a code white. Security responds right away as well as a team of nurses from the psych unit.

I also agree with the other posters. That patient should not have gotten away with that behavior.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · May 31, 2015

I could understand the rationale of not escalating a patient once they have been talked down. With that being said, the thing I find most disturbing is that the patient was not spoken to about the incident after the fact, even the next day by risk management, security, the local police....and you should call your malpractice insurance, and contact your union JUST to be sure they are in the loop in all of this. It just doesn't sit well with me, and I think you need to protect yourself.

I am shocked this occurred in OB, but I guess I shouldn't be. This case should be followed closely. If you have a mother/expecting mother who is so out of control it sends up HUGE red flags.

And I would think about what your role is as a mandated reporter.....I have not one clue what the circumstances are/were, however, CPS may have to be part of this for the protection of the child/soon to be child.

I am sorry that this happened to you.

mvm2 · May 31, 2015

If this is eating away at you I'd have a sit down and discuss it. Getting it out in the open and explain your feelings about how this was handled has made you feel. I believe that with a talk maybe your supervisors can see your points and reassure you that your safety is important to them. Its better then having all the anxiety and pent up feelings over it. After a talk you might be able to focus again on things that matter your family and your job.

Sometimes we all make decisions that were not exactly the right way to handle things in hind sight. Your supervisors had to think on their feet and maybe did not handle it the exact way it should have been handled but if you talk it through maybe everyone can learn from the situation and handle it differently next time.

brandiep1982 · May 31, 2015

I will probably get some flack for this, but I can't just jump on the bandwagon here and support OP without a little more info.

I am curious as to why no one has thought to ask what happened that led to the incidence of the patient threatening OP. We are quick to condemn this patient but have no idea what may have happened prior to the threat. No, a threat is never ok... but it is possible that OP had some responsibility in this situation as well. And when OP says she was threatened... did the patient say specifically "I'm going to (insert physical harm intended here)", or did she say something else and OP just felt threatened? From all the reading I have done on AN, usually the OP explains the situation.

So, OP, without revealing any protected information, could you explain the situation further?

Jules A, MSN · May 31, 2015

I get threatened and assaulted at work on a daily basis. (I'm a nurse at a forensic psych hospital). It would never occur to me to press charges for anything. I consider it part of the job that I signed up for.

I hear ya, in psych the chance of getting assaulted is part of the deal, imo. Being threatened rarely bothers me although I don't appreciate being swung on.

That said however there are times when I would advocate pressing charges such as if the patient is largely antisocial rather than a true Axis I diagnosis and also when a patient really needs long term inpatient hospitalization due to their chronic mental illness and inability to function safely in the community. Our state hospitals are nearly non-existent now and sometimes showing someone is violent is the only way to get them the care they need.

VANurse2010 · May 31, 2015

I work in OB and tonight I was threatened by a patient. She actually was chasing be down the hall when a coworker intervened and stopped her. I called the nursing supervisor who was on her way up to the unit with security when the charge nurse told her not to come or bring security in order to " not get patient worked up again". Needless to say I'm disappointed. If it was the other way around and I threatened to physically harm a patient security, police and the BON would have been called. However, patients are allowed to treat staff however they want to with little to no consequences.

You could always file a complaint with the police. Your hospital officials are being buttheads, but ultimately law enforcement is a police function.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · May 31, 2015

SarahMaria, speak for yourself. Myself, I signed up to provide nursing care, not to be on the receiving end of violent crime. I suspect prnqday signed up to do the same.

ETA: full disclosure, I've never worked psych. I understand it's very different, and similarly I'd be more forgiving of someone w/ a severe frontal TBI and not be so quick to press criminal charges ... but still, I'd expect protections to be in place.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · May 31, 2015

brandiep1982, even if OP had done something wrong prior to this, nothing excuses this woman's behavior. There is no excuse for chasing someone down the hall while threatening them--that isn't a self-defensive move. That is an act of aggression. She was no more culpable in causing the attack than any other assault victim is.

42pines · May 31, 2015

What fun! There are many good answers here. Yet I've occasionally said to other: Do not attempt to use common logic for legal questions, for it will get you nowhereâ€”though you can use legal logic for legal questions".

SlinkyheadRN says: Psych issues or not, assault of a health care worker is a crime,â€ and adds It's not ok.â€ SarahMaria says: I get threatened and assaulted at work on a daily basis. (I'm a nurse at a forensic psych hospital). It would never occur to me to press charges for anything. I consider it part of the job that I signed up for.â€

These are interesting points and I'll agree, It's not right. But when psych issues are the cause, believe it or not, it's not a crime.

Let me back up a bit. I like amoLucia's post: â€¦you still have legal grounds for an assault charge (battery occurs if there's contactâ€¦) adding Unless this woman was under the influence of some medication interaction.â€

As AmoLucia correctly stated, battery is the crime if contact occurs, and it does not need to be heavy contact, for a light touch in the wrong (read inappropriate) area is battery. Thefreedictionary's definition for assault is: an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.â€ Clearly this created apprehension for prnqday. Therefore assault has occurred, plain in simple.

Crime? Thefreedictionary has a simple definition: An act committed in violation of law where the consequence of conviction by a court is punishment.â€ So then we must look at the mental capacity of the perpetrator because universally (in America at least), as perhaps well summed up by Alabama law: Rule 11 of Alabama Rules of Criminal Procedure. "Defendants may raise a defense of not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect, either by filing a pre-trial motion or by entering a plea.â€ Similar rules/law can be found elsewhere. If a person is not competent, be it from Alzheimer's disease or by an adverse reaction to a medication it cannot be a crime, and if not a crime while it may be assault it will not be actionable because no Court would punish it.

For OP it was, if it occurred without cause (remember we have no idea as to why the person assaulted her), it was assault. For it to be a crime it had to be actionable, but we do not know the mental state of the accused. As SlinkyheadRN tells us, indeed, it would usually be pointless for her to press charges because she works in a Psych ward and reallyâ€¦

Here I'd wonder what the whole story is. If OP is without fault, I'd fault the facility. Assault, even without battery can cause damage emotionally. If nothing else that facility needs to have a procedure and policy to make sure that a health care worker who is assaulted gets the care she/he needs after the assaultâ€”even if the assaulter has not committed a crime due to mental defect.

A good example of all this would be Felix Freed's murder of Bess Kleinman. Both were clearly good friends, Bess was aged 90 and Felix was aged 72, both living in the Tiffany House living complex for seniors in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He put a trash back over her head and suffocated her. He could not explain why he had done it.

Felix was charged with first degree murder and he spent a year in the Broward County Jail and about two years in the Florida State Hospital for the criminally insane. But eventually the murder charge was dropped as he was deemed to suffer from dementia.

There is a clear-cut case where assault and battery clearly occurred but where no crime was committed. Felix Freed was released and sent to another assisted-living facility where undoubtedly he was watched very closely.

DeeAngel · May 31, 2015

I hope you wrote up an incident report about this!

allnurses Guide · May 31, 2015

Like another poster here - I just feel something is missing from this story. I am a seasoned psych nurse and even the most psychotic patient will rarely attack a nurse or c=doctor without something setting them off. I am not saying any attack/ assault is justified but would really want to know what happened prior to being chased down the hall. What was happening, could someone anticipate that the situation was escalating? Were there any early efforts made to defuse said escalation. enquiring minds want to know????

Hppy