Threatened by patient

brandiep1982 · May 31, 2015

brandiep1982, even if OP had done something wrong prior to this, nothing excuses this woman's behavior. There is no excuse for chasing someone down the hall while threatening them--that isn't a self-defensive move. That is an act of aggression. She was no more culpable in causing the attack than any other assault victim is.

I agree with you to an extent. I mentioned that threatening someone is never ok. I do not know what happened. I would like to assume the best of this nurse. But I also cannot condemn a patient without knowledge of the whole situation.

Sure, there is no excuse for chasing someone (was the patient really chasing? or did they just follow them out the door?), or threatening them (was there actually a threat, or just an exchange of emotional words, with no literal threat?). But to say that the only person responsible is the patient is somewhat hasty given that we have no information. In a perfect world with perfect people, no one would ever antagonize anyone else, and fights would never happen... but fights do happen. If police are involved, they will ask what happened leading up to the "threat". That's because that information is important. We can't just say whatever we want to people and treat them however we want and expect them to just take it... we can't be rude to a patient in pain/ who is emotional and act surprised when they lash out at us.

Maybe the nurse simply had to inform the patient that she couldn't eat anything, and the lady just flipped her lid. But we don't know that.

sharkdiver · May 31, 2015

Like another poster here - I just feel something is missing from this story. I am a seasoned psych nurse and even the most psychotic patient will rarely attack a nurse or c=doctor without something setting them off. I am not saying any attack/ assault is justified but would really want to know what happened prior to being chased down the hall. What was happening, could someone anticipate that the situation was escalating? Were there any early efforts made to defuse said escalation. enquiring minds want to know????
Hppy

Agree - rarely will something like what was described happen purely out of the blue. What was the trigger event?

Dogen · May 31, 2015

That said however there are times when I would advocate pressing charges such as if the patient is largely antisocial rather than a true Axis I diagnosis and also when a patient really needs long term inpatient hospitalization due to their chronic mental illness and inability to function safely in the community. Our state hospitals are nearly non-existent now and sometimes showing someone is violent is the only way to get them the care they need.

In Oregon when you press charges you have to list your home address on the complaint, which is provided to the defendant. I have serious doubts that most of the people I've seen get physical are organized enough to find my house, but so far no one I know who's been assaulted at work has had any desire to press charges just in case.

On the other hand, if a patient became violent prior to a commitment hearing the county investigator assigned to them would put it in the state's evidence and use it to get them court committed... so there are ways around handing your address to someone who just sucker punched you. Not really an option on an OB floor, though...

seconddegreebsn · Jun 1, 2015

I was recently threatened by the head of a gang and several gang members who were in his room after visiting hours when I asked them to leave (per our policy). They had been calling people and making threats and in sexual situations with a minor and I was fairly certain one of them had a weapon. When I called security, they told me they would not kick out a patient's guests, then came back later and did exactly that once they figured out they were not authorized to stay overnight. Because threatening me with harm was not sufficient to have these people removed? Not according to nursing management.

I told them they needed to get a new nurse to care for the patient and I would not enter the room unless I was accompanied by armed security. If they didn't like it they were free to fire me on the spot. My job is not worth compromising my safety. They sent another nurse in to finish out the rest of the shift but when the patient threatened to AMA they insisted he stay.

Guess that's just how it is now.

brandiep1982 · Jun 1, 2015

I was recently threatened by the head of a gang and several gang members who were in his room after visiting hours when I asked them to leave (per our policy). They had been calling people and making threats and in sexual situations with a minor and I was fairly certain one of them had a weapon. When I called security, they told me they would not kick out a patient's guests, then came back later and did exactly that once they figured out they were not authorized to stay overnight. Because threatening me with harm was not sufficient to have these people removed? Not according to nursing management.
I told them they needed to get a new nurse to care for the patient and I would not enter the room unless I was accompanied by armed security. If they didn't like it they were free to fire me on the spot. My job is not worth compromising my safety. They sent another nurse in to finish out the rest of the shift but when the patient threatened to AMA they insisted he stay.
Guess that's just how it is now.

I really just don't understand some people... :sniff:

I was at the park with my toddler and 13 year old. There was a group of teenagers wandering around the park cursing loudly. I asked them to stop cursing around my toddler. Most of them apologized or just stopped...but a few seconds later one punk said very loudly, "I don't give a F*** N****! I'm GROWN! I say what I WANT!"... he looked to be about 15. Seriously? I'm sorry, but if I heard that come out of my teen's mouth, she would have a fat lip... but then again, I would probably die of shock first bc while she may have her serious teenage moments, it is never anywhere near that level of disrespect.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jun 1, 2015

seconddegreebsn...SHEESH!!! That's insane. That kind of thing is exactly why we have hospital security! Where I work, in gang related admissions, we restrict visitors no matter what the pt says, for the safety of staff and other pts. Good for you, standing up for yourself. Unreal.

ANnot4me · Jun 1, 2015

Huh? What? I used to work with patients who were gang members and all kinds of crazy. My response to threats by family and patients was "I will call the police [not security] and I will press charges." That always ended the conflict and I am still alive.

seconddegreebsn · Jun 1, 2015

Huh? What? I used to work with patients who were gang members and all kinds of crazy. My response to threats by family and patients was "I will call the police [not security] and I will press charges." That always ended the conflict and I am still alive.

Yeah, we threatened to call the police and that didn't deter him at all. I still cannot believe he was allowed to stay after threatening staff, but you know...customer service and whatever. Looking for another job, obviously.

Red Kryptonite · Jun 1, 2015

Yeah, we threatened to call the police and that didn't deter him at all. I still cannot believe he was allowed to stay after threatening staff, but you know...customer service and whatever. Looking for another job, obviously.

As with raising children, you'll find that empty threats are not only ineffective, they will actually embolden offenders once they figure out you're bluffing. You have to be willing to follow through, or don't make the threat.

xoemmylouox, ASN, RN · Jun 1, 2015

It is amazing how healthcare organizations will allow nonsense like this to continue. A police office tried to intimidate me when he didn't agree with the care his child received. I wrote up a report - nothing was done. Another staff member was threatened by a parent who also happened to be a staff member - nothing happened. Recently had a women who caused a big scene - swearing & yelling - She was given exactly what she wanted, even after she was caught in a complete lie. We TEACH people to behave like this by rewarding their ridiculous behavior.

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Jun 1, 2015

I am absolutely willing to believe something like this happened in OB. As to what could've triggered the event, I've seen OB patients go from 0-60 over something that isn't really a big deal, but when combined with hormones, sleep deprivation, whatever other baseline drama the pt has going on at home, and pain....it can get bad fast.

We've had patients threaten nurses over ("I'm gonna kill you, b****!") being told they can't take home baby blankets.....After being caught stuffing them down her bra at discharge. We've had pts threaten nurses because they didn't get an epidural (labor went quickly, no time), because their disruptive visitors got kicked out of the room, or because their UDS came back dirty. So it could literally have been anything.

It has never actually happened to me, but if the patient is deemed competent, you bet your bird I'm pressing charges. Don't talk to me like that.

Jules A, MSN · Jun 1, 2015

As with raising children, you'll find that empty threats are not only ineffective, they will actually embolden offenders once they figure out you're bluffing. You have to be willing to follow through, or don't make the threat.

And when word gets out that the facility won't tolerate this type of ridiculous behavior I guarantee most of it will cease. If they want care they will act appropriately. That hospitals tolerate this type of behavior is disgusting and sets a poor precedence.