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Occupational Health; Adult ICU
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42pines specializes in Occupational Health; Adult ICU.

Occupational Health Manager at Sysco (sole nurse for 700 employees). Occupational Health Nurse for GE (General Electric Aviation). Occupational Health nurse for Shire Pharmaceuticals. Occupational Health Nurse for GM (General Motors). Former Adult ICU RN.

42pines's Latest Activity

  1. @Susie2310 I'll agree, and I'll disagree. Rather than reiterate my grounds, I'll use the following sources. As you can see, by these two sources, it is a privilege, and it is also a right, and it is also "property." And, if it's property a nurse's license and the nurse is protected both by her state Constitution and by the Federal Constitution. "What you may not know that once granted, the license is considered “property” under the state and federal constitutions and therefore protected from unfounded removal from the person by the government. In this way, the license is a “right”. However, because the license is granted by the state and its board of nursing, it is a “right” that is not without limits. A nurse licensee must practice nursing within the bounds of the nurse practice act and its rules as well as within the ethical codes applicable to the profession. When this does not occur, the nurse licensee may be disciplined by the state board of nursing. In this way, then, the license to practice nursing is also a “privilege”, which means one’s nursing practice and personal conduct can be called into question if the act and rules or ethical codes are allegedly violated." https://www.cphins.com/what-rights-do-nurses-have-when-appearing-before-the-board-of-nursing/#:~:text=What you may not know,license is a “right”. "A nursing license is a credential granted by an individual state. Most states require that healthcare practitioners with direct patient contact be licensed. Each individual state has the sole authority to license health care practitioners in their jurisdiction. A license confers a legal property right to the holder. Consequently, the license can not be taken away from the practitioner without due process. Legally speaking due process includes the right to a hearing and access to the courts in a proceeding to remove a legal right." See http://aam.govst.edu/projects/scomer/student_page1.html#:~:text=A nursing license is a,property right to the holder. People's eyes roll when someone mentions "Constitution" yet its applicable here. For instance my state (and most, if not all others) any citizen has a right to a "speedy trial" (uh, we're now at 22 months here, and we aren't even close to any hearing, or any resolve--does that sound right?) They nurse that has been charged has a right to know what charges are pending, clearly and in an understandable way. (That hasn't been done here). Additionally no citizen is "compelled to furnish evidence against themselves," yet I am told by my BON that I must sort though these "sort of" allegations and respond, as though I know which ones are actual charges, and which are simple opinions? My opinion is that the BON is acting as a bully. As nasty as the situation that I'm in is, it's rather fascinating. I am intrigued as to the outcome, though I wish they'd hurry up, as I'd like to finish my Capstone BSN course.
  2. @rzyzzy You seem to have a progressive BON. Anyone with half a brain can see that what I'm going through is a witch hunt. The problem is that nobody on the BON has bothered to fully read my answer to the charges. You are correct about the license is a "property," an important concept, echoed in this excellent article (it's about Florida, which is a progressive state for nurse rights, but it's one that I suggest any nurse read) file:///C:/Users/X-3-20/Zotero/storage/S3CK4UA9/board-of-nursing-legal-advice.html Later retaliation for unsubstantiated complaints, I agree, would be unethical, even illegal. The problem is that nowadays employers (remember over the past 15 years, every employer that I've had is a Fortune 500 corporation. The even do a social media profile search on you (mine is squeaky clean) but if a third-party "checker" does that, I'm sure that each would have a check-box labeled "complaint pending." If that box is checked, that's it, I'm quietly removed from consideration and no information will ever be found by me that was done. Like age discrimination, there's a lot of it, but it's hard to prove and being knocked out of consideration would be harder to prove--probably impossible. The most hurtful thing that this has done was that it knocked me out of a BSN program with only a Capstone course left. And I mean knocked out, one course to go and even my school email is closed. My bad far asking if I could do a Capstone with pending complaints. I think I need to relax my ethical standards.
  3. Thanks @rzyzzy I now realize that since the majority agree with you I should have done just that and now, that's what I'm doing. Still, I've checked and my target state will tell any employer (and it took only a few minutes to get my own information) that I have a charge "pending" and "the date the complaint was made." Twenty-three months stuck in a sort of Limbo.
  4. @hannabanana Yes, I intend to continue nursing. I have only a Capstone course to finish a BSN (with a cum 3.9+) and expect to move on to attain a Master's. I'm curious, why "pro counseling?" It'd be quite a far stretch to point to that list and say it's witness tampering. Yes, I cannot say actual names/places and so on, but the list is benign.
  5. @magellanA student, applying for a license is entirely different from checking an existing license. Yes, it takes a long time for BON to process and complete the RN, or other nurse license. Checking the license of any nurse is simple and fast: Search for [state name] "check a nursing license." Every state has an online presence. Enter just the last name and in most states you'll find it, though you might find, for instance, in California, dozens, so having a first name useful. If the nurse you are searching for has any actions, censure, probation, agreements, there will be a note attached showing that action and its terms. For instance in my state you will see, under the license (when you look it up) two sections: "Discipline Information," and "Board Actions." Looking up a friend’s license that I know had an allegation of wrongdoing in the past, I see nothing under Discipline Information. But, under Board action there is a .pdf which, when downloaded, is a six-page document titled “Settlement Agreement.” In this case the nurse was assessed a $500 file and required to complete 6 hours of Continuing Nursing Education. Looking up a friend’s license that I know had an allegation of wrongdoing in the past I see nothing under Discipline Information. But, under Board action there is a .pdf which, when downloaded, is a six-page document titled “Settlement Agreement.” In this case the nurse was assessed a $500 file and required to complete 6 hours of Continuing Nursing Education.
  6. @magellan Bravo! You hit the nail on the head. You win a stuffed bear. The equation is all wrong. You see this, and others here see this, and so would the BON if they actually read both the complaint and my "answer" to the complaint. Sadly,@magellan I must take back the stuffed bear. Look at the time between your "Yes, the employer can verify" and this post." That is exactly how long it takes to ascertain if a nurse has an action pending. Yes, it took about two minutes. MA Board of Nursing is (617) 973-0900. Call them, ask: "If I have the name and other information about a nurse licensed in Massachusetts , how long does it take to find out if there is an action pending? The answer was: "I can do that right now... Feel free to try, they won't mind. And yes, MA is one of the states that I would look to work as a nurse, and have worked as an RN before.
  7. @TheMoonisMyLantern Technically, you are correct. Searching for “can your nursing license be checked for pending complaints” It did not take long to find, the answer, at least in some states, as I was once told, is “yes.” “During the Board's investigation and complaint resolution process, details of a complaint are not made public except for the existence of the complaint pending and the date it was filed.” Therefore at least in this state, Massachusetts, an employer CAN find if there are complaints pending. See: https://www.mass.gov/service-details/what-you-need-to-know-if-a-complaint-is-filed-against-your-license A wise employer would always check for pending complaints. A wise employer would never tell the applicant why they only got “dead air,” about that job.
  8. @susie2310 I agree with you. However, you and I are a minority. For 22 months I have abided and shared the pending investigation. Last week though, the investigator from the Attorney General's office commented: "your license is intact and you do not have to share that with an employer." I thought this very interesting and it came about from a comment I made, that must have made its way back to the AG's office. If I hired someone who had one pending complaint I'd be very unhapppy. @jadedcpn I told my advisor and asked if I could do a Capstone that was research based rather than at a facility, and the hammer dropped. Even my email account was revoked. *sigh* @Magellin Agreed. Neither my employer (the Contract company) for the facility owner bothered to investigate, never even asked, just an abrupt at 5pm: "Leave and never return." You are correct the equation is not right. Sadly though the BON, nor the AG's office has really bothered to look at the charges closely or my response. Thus the "guilty till proven innocent."
  9. The reality is that I shall get out of it with license intact. Consider, no harm. No complaint by patient or family. No allegation of negligence, no medication error of any significance, no drugs, no alcohol, no theft, no faking signatures, in short, nothing major. Therefore, like most, the worst will be a slap on the wrist, maybe "shall take a course on documentation." For most, this would be ho hum, but for the level of job that I seek (upper management) literally "any" infraction is likely to affect my employment options, as that sort of addendum to your license lasts forever. The terrible part is being knocked out of college, unable to finish the last course, the Capstone. Then, unable to proceed to attaining a Master's degree, this has knocked two years out of my best nursing years of my career. What is interesting is that BONs are quasi-judicial entities. Courts are loathe to ever interfere with them. However, there is one way that the Courts will intervene and that is when a Plaintiff attacks the BONs validity of evidence. So, whatever evidence they can amass--it had better be rock solid. It'll make a good article, someday.
  10. Ha! You were young then Davey, you've learned not to say things to hastily these days, not that it matters, since you're retired. It does sound similar. In this case I believe that the Contractors had a vested interest in having me gone. The place had tons of problems and one by one I negated them, removing the "reason" that the place had to be shut down. But shutting the facility was politically unpopular. With me gone, the Contractors kept their job, there's a decent motive. The LPN is a weird one though, an extremely vitriolic letter of complaint including allegations that I was cognitively impaired. After sending $1600 the PsyD stated: "no evidence of cognitive impairment." I haven't a clue as to why the LPN literally attacked me, maybe I'll never know.
  11. @TheMoonisMyLantern Interestingly there are "two" employers, since I was contracted. My contract employer sold me to the entity that owned the place I worked for. More interestingly neither was vindictive at all. The complaint was lodged by a contractor who had never even worked with me. Additionally, in what seems a pig pile fashion, the other "complaint" was by an LPN that I had just hired, and who had worked with me a whopping fifteen minutes, sum total. These two complained to the owner of the entity that I worked for. The owner simply "echoed" these two complaints to the BON. What really is fascinating is that ANY one can create any complaint to the BON and you cannot sue them for defamation, as that is privileged. Unless you can prove actual malice a complainant to the board is immune to legal action. Yet in this case, the complaint was not to the BON but to the owner, who, without investigation, believed the allegations. The two allegators (yeah, I know) thus stand without absolute immunity and may find themselves in very, very deep water, if I can get past the BON with zero actions against my license--my goal.
  12. Leader25, if I discussed identifiable facts, yes, there could be an issue, however, you can't even figure out where I am. I'm careful with what I say for now. "Speak with BON as to what you are expected to do" Do that and it's very simple, they will say: "Plead guilty to everything and anything." Many do just that, they just lay under the bus's wheels. Interestingly though if you go to your BON's website and review finalized cases, you'll see that most are simple and most complaints are well-founded on facts. This one isn't. I'll won't be found guilty on any charge excepting maybe a documenting one, after all, every nurse could be found guilty on that, if you press hard enough. It's a nasty, nasty ride on the way to innocence though. If nothing else, I hope readers realize that the BON is not a nurses friend. Try reading this for a bit of the reality that you'll face if you ever run into a complaint with the BON, it's a really great article: https://www.thehealthlawfirm.com/resources/health-law-articles-and-documents/board-of-nursing-legal-advice.html As for video? Huh? I think you're referring to Magellin's post which is very off-base. No video anywhere, not an issue.
  13. Nope, nobody died. No patient, nor family had any complaint. And no, Davey Do, I'm not a troll, which you can see if you look at my record here. @Hoosier_RN You wrote: "I've filled out applications that ask about license ever or currently suspended or under investigation." I've run into this. One headhunter told me: "There is a way that an employer can find out if your license is under investigation." I don't know if that is true for some states, but not for other states. And I don't have a lawyer. I attempted to hire one but there was a conflict of interest (there were two who complained, one was a contractor) as one was in some way a client, or maybe had been, lawyers don't explain. Then I found another lawyer, who seemed excellent, and all of a sudden, "uh oh, I can't represent you, as there is a conflict of interest." (Same issue with the same contractor). Yes, that's odd, and makes me wonder what's up with that--maybe that contractor is a "repeat offender?" So I looked and found another lawyer, again a specialist lawyer. I gave the lawyer a $2500 retainer and they started working on an answer to the complaint. A month went by, and just before the deadline, they sent me a copy. It was pathetic, full of inaccuracies (including some totally erroneous "facts," and poorly written. I fired the lawyer, then found that I had rung up a $12,500 bill. The lawyer kept my retainer and "waived" the rest. My case has been "elevated" to my state's Attorney General's (AG) office. I was pestered by an attorney investigator to give them carte blanche access to all medical records--all, including childhood records. It was evident that the "cognitive impairment" was now the issue. I objected but stated I was willing to let them ask my doctor (or prior doctor) "in your opinion is (my name) cognitively competent to be an RN." Over and over that attorney demanded carte blanche access and over and over I repeated that I was willing to let them ask the above sentence. Well, the doctor queried said he'd have to have a neurocognitive exam to be conclusive. Then Covid hit, and all I got was dead air. I knew that such investigations take about a year, so after 16 months I contacted the AG and said, "c'mon you are trampling my civil rights and Covid really is not much of an excuse as most, if not all investigation could be done from a home office. That hit home and what had happened was that the lawyer investigating me no longer works for the AG, I was "lost." I was promptly contacted by a doctor who wanted to do an interview, who supposedly specialized in addiction but also in cognitive issues. OK, I thought, and did a two-hour Zoom interview. The outcome: "You must go and have a neurocognitive exam." "Why," I asked. "Because the AG is concerned, your response was 28 pages." Yes, 28 complaints, one page for each complaint, and based on that the AG thinks I'm cognitively impaired." Btw, the cost for such an exam is $1,600. "So, I'm being forced to spend $1,600 for this exam?" The answer: "Well, no, I'm not forcing you to do anything." "OK," I responded, "You're not 'forcing' me but if I refuse, I never get my job back?" Yup. So I drove an hour, spent 5 hours with a PsyD. The outcome was a multi-page (lots of test results) and the statement: "“There is no evidence of cognitive impairment at a level that would predict significant difficulties functioning as a nurse.” Recently I was told by the addiction doctor (no, I have no issues with addition, nor were any alleged) that other than the "cognitive concern," I was not under investigation. Yet, recently a new Attorney Investigator contacted me, telling me, "You can work as a nurse." Also telling me I am under investigation. But now, what, exactly am I being investigated for? I intend to write to the AG and ask them to please enumerate exactly what I am being investigated for, allegation by allegation, specifically. If this was not so devastatingly painful, it'd be comic. The real kicker in all this was that two weeks after I was fired, the place closed, permanently. In the meantime, I've plenty of time on my hands to finish my BSN but the college has banned me from doing my final capstone course because of the pending complaint. @brandy1017 I think that is sage advice. @Davey Do You are correct. I have seen some lose their license but it's rare. Excepting severe violations the norm is probation, education, substance treatment and usually the nurse has a valid license again. In my case though, even a minor chastisement, let's say for documenting improperly will show up FOREVER, for all to see. At my level of nursing any issue, no matter how minor will get me passed over. I'm at the top of my subspecialty having worked now for a number of major corporations (a few were GM & GE). I've been told by headhunters that any negativity related to my licenses will knock me out of a high-level job. So, I'll fight. Thanks again to all who contributed.
  14. I have been under investigation for twenty months by my State Board of Nursing for twenty-four itemized complaints. One day at 5pm I was abruptly fired. No explanation was given. There had been no prior warnings, just “leave and never return.” (Seriously!) Repeatedly, since then, I have been approached to apply for a nursing job. Each time, I shared that I was under investigation with the BON, offering to share both the complaint and share why I was innocent. Each time this ended the hiring process. My question for you is: With the list of complaints alleged, (see the end of the post) especially the last one that alleges cognitive impairment, which of the following statements do YOU as a nurse agree with: I believe that I must ethically let any potential employer (if the job will be working as an RN) know that there is an impending, and as yet, unresolved BON complaint against me. OR I believe that I am not ethically bound to share with any potential employer, (if the job will be working as an RN) that there is an impending, and as yet, unresolved BON Complaint against me. Please DO NOT ask for any more information. This is imperative. Giving out too much information before investigation is finished could be interpreted as witness tampering (interfering with the investigation). My lawyer has warned me to be very careful about giving out information. Therefore, I cannot, at this time, give out any more information. I promise, that when the time is ripe, I will write, probably an article, sharing the entire story. Since you will naturally want to know what the complaints were, here they all are: Sent an unethical and unprofessional letter to a doctor. Fraud, four separate itemizations Mistakes administering medications. Failing to document. Failing to notify doctor of medical issues or medication issues. Failure to wash hands when handling medications. Failure to use gloves properly. Failure to properly assess. Failure to perform as ordered. “Creates a negative environment.” “Nurse was late.” “Nurse appeared scattered and somewhat sedated.” Re-injection of insulin with the same needle. Did not wash hands after injecting insulin. Not cleaning hands between patients. Inappropriate delegation to LNA’s Refusing to work as part of a team. Questionable assessment skills. RN “talked more than worked.” Neglecting patients. Sloppy or non-existent documentation. Violation of HIPAA (Keeping patient photographs on personal phone) “The way the RN acts with some of the female residents is cause for concern.” Engaging in nonsensical conversations causing interference with staff performing duties. Talking too much. “Medical or mental health issues (or a combination of both) that would prevent him from providing nursing care in a safe, professional and appropriate manner.”
  15. I empathize with your POV, but I fear that you may be incorrect. It's not uncommon for a lawyer to take a $2,000 retainer and eventually if the case must actually go to Court, bill you for over $50,000. You are assuming that a lawyer can actually use the law to force the college to change what they want to do. This is likely a false assumption. As one poster pointed out, "avoid colleges with exit exams," for they use them to make sure that their NCLEX numbers remain high. That points to a college that's not using particularly good ethics from the get-go. A lawyer might be useful and might not, but remember lawyers make money, big money, by the hour.
  16. 42pines

    NP Legal Consulting Course

    Zero responses. It's that sort of thing that makes me really wonder just how many people who take those legal nurse consultant $~6,000 courses actually end up working as LNC's. By all means, feel free to correct me...