Texas governor to residents: "The safest place for you is at your home" due Covid-19 spike

A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN · Jul 7, 2020

3 minutes ago, Undercat said:
Ventilators kept many people alive. Smart people came up with alternative solutions because of the lack of vents and the experience that this was not ARDS. Where did you get the idea that vents didn't save anyone? Again I ask, what experience do you have working with Covid patients? What ICU experience? Yes you feel the need to denigrate others who actually HAVE to wear PPE and know much more about masks than you do. They actually need them to survive so take the time to learn. Masks to you are a political punch line, not something you have to wear every day because you wouldn't dare to not to. And please don't compare public health to Naziism. That's so ignorant, insulting and demeaning. I just can't see from anything you have written that you are a serious person. Your generation will have to pay for this mess . Not me, I will already be dead but I hate the thought that my younger relatives will have to struggle to maintain a middle class life.

1) ICU doctors were already saying that the vents were causing worse outcomes and they strongly preferred keeping people on very high flow rates of O2 versus tubing them. Their rationale is that the virus weakened sufferers' lungs, and the additional strain of putting someone on a vent would overwork these lungs.

2) I have worked on COVID units. Let's not engage in ad hominem personal attacks here.

3) I am denigrating those who seek to impose mandates to mask and/or social distance in the general public. Nowhere did I say that healthcare workers caring for COVID patients shouldn't have or wear PPE.

4) When public health "experts" try to pass off their recommendations as diktats, and seek to influence elected officials into turning those recommendations as mandates backed by the law, that is totalitarianism. Fauci and his co-conspirators don't have the courage to tell people what to do to their faces (or else they'd see "social distancing violations" between their faces and others' fists!). So they want to have the politicians carry out their wishes by force. Slimebags to the extreme!

5) There is no mess if you treat it more like the flu and less like Ebola. Reopen America, encourage handwashing, social distancing, and masking, but don't count on it, and don't arrogantly assume that people have to follow your wishes. This is still a free country (despite what the leftists want) and individuals make their own choices.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2020

16 hours ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:
Reopen America, encourage handwashing, social distancing, and masking, but don't count on it, and don't arrogantly assume that people have to follow your wishes.

This is what Florida, Texas, and Arizona have done. We are all watching that experiment occur in real time. They opened without the phasing that was recommended by the White House.

Here is the timeline of what we heard from the POTUS/VPTUS/WH:

Beginning of April that we would be "substantially under" and "far below" 100,000 deaths. We had 205,000 active cases and 9,000 deaths.

In mid April, "We could end up at 50 to 60". On 16 April, White House announces plans for phased reopening. We had 35,000 deaths and 600,000 active cases.

By the end of April we heard that 70,000 was the "final level" and it was a "great success story". We had 60,000 deaths and 824,000 active cases.

In the beginning of May we heard "and now I'm saying 80 to 90" while the VPOUS said "by Memorial Day weekend we will have this coronavirus epidemic behind us". We had 71,000 deaths and 900,000 active cases.

We are now at 134,000 deaths and 1.6 million active cases.

This is why we need to trust scientists and not partisan mouthpieces.

pixierose, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2020

17 hours ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:
1) ICU doctors were already saying that the vents were causing worse outcomes and they strongly preferred keeping people on very high flow rates of O2 versus tubing them. Their rationale is that the virus weakened sufferers' lungs, and the additional strain of putting someone on a vent would overwork these lungs.
2) I have worked on COVID units. Let's not engage in ad hominem personal attacks here.
3) I am denigrating those who seek to impose mandates to mask and/or social distance in the general public. Nowhere did I say that healthcare workers caring for COVID patients shouldn't have or wear PPE.
4) When public health "experts" try to pass off their recommendations as diktats, and seek to influence elected officials into turning those recommendations as mandates backed by the law, that is totalitarianism. Fauci and his co-conspirators don't have the courage to tell people what to do to their faces (or else they'd see "social distancing violations" between their faces and others' fists!). So they want to have the politicians carry out their wishes by force. Slimebags to the extreme!
5) There is no mess if you treat it more like the flu and less like Ebola. Reopen America, encourage handwashing, social distancing, and masking, but don't count on it, and don't arrogantly assume that people have to follow your wishes. This is still a free country (despite what the leftists want) and individuals make their own choices.

*No one* who has worked in a COVID unit would ever say what you are saying now. Being in the NE, working on a COVID unit from March-June ... those experiences will forever color my view of this virus.

... A free country doesn’t equate a lack of responsibility. People such as yourself don’t seem to understand that. I doubt you ever will.

We are seeing first hand, real time, what happens when individuals make “their own choices.” Refer to Boston’s post.

As mentioned before, I’m in CT and mask wearing has been mandatory since April. We are hardly nazi Germany. I’ll let our data speak for ourselves.

Guest1142305 · Jul 8, 2020

1 hour ago, pixierose said:
*No one* who has worked in a COVID unit would ever say what you are saying now.

Not to be the devil’s advocate, but not everyone views death and suffering the same way. He certainly could hold the opinions he has and still have seen how the virus makes mince meat of the vulnerable.

I was deathly ill with COVID for 30+ days and probably should have been hospitalized; if it weren’t for my cpap machine at home that I began using 24/7 to get my skin to go back to normal I’d probably be dead now. I have severe asthma and broncheactasis. Now I’m on powerful medication for asthma/COPD just to function. I don’t think I’ve ever been more scared that I was about to check out in my life. That doesn’t stop me from feeling exactly like @A Hit With The Ladies feels vis-à-vis liberties and the futility of lockdown, or the acceptability of the deaths that are occurring when weighed against the impact this debacle of lockdowns, etc. has caused.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2020

8 minutes ago, damiorifice said:
That doesn’t stop me from feeling exactly like @A Hit With The Ladies feels vis-à-vis liberties and the futility of lockdown, or the acceptability of the deaths that are occurring when weighed against the impact this debacle of lockdowns, etc. has caused.

Can you cite your sources that social distancing/lockdown/stay-at-home or required face coverings were futile?

Guest1142305 · Jul 8, 2020

Just now, BostonFNP said:
Can you cite your sources that social distancing/lockdown/stay-at-home or required face coverings were futile?

IMO they only became futile because the collective will of the people has been to just get this over with.

There’s no questioning that everyone staying at there houses or walking around in veritable plastic bubbles sure does help stop the spread of disease, it’s just untenable.

idealism always eventually meets up with reality, and the two cannot coexist.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2020

US has 4% of the world’s population, but more than 25% of global coronavirus cases

... According to data provided by Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center, there were 2,910,023 confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.S. out of 11,516,782 confirmed cases around the world as of July 6. The grim statistic comes at a time when confirmed cases are on the rise in 41 out of 50 states, plus the District of Columbia, and the percentage of tests coming back positive for the virus is increasing in 39 states...

... The U.S. still has more confirmed cases than any other nation by a significant margin with over 2.7 million, a situation so extreme that the European Union barred American travelers from visiting its member nations. In recent days, the United States has broken its own records for new confirmed case counts...

https://www.ktvu.com/news/us-has-4-of-the-worlds-population-but-more-than-25-of-global-coronavirus-cases

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2020

Dr. Hilary Fairbrother, associate prof. of Emergency Medicine at McGovern Medical School at UTHealth in Houston, says the politicization of public health in the United States has led to “uncontrolled disease spread” during the pandemic.

NurseBlaq · Jul 8, 2020

I believe at this point people are arguing against masks and all the data presented just for the sake of arguing and/or ego. We've seen the no masks, let everyone roam about without a care in the world, etc. It has amounted to 3 million + covid cases in the US, many since states opened back up under political pressure, avoiding scientific advice. Any argument against masks at this point is pure ego.

pixierose, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2020

16 minutes ago, damiorifice said:
Not to be the devil’s advocate, but not everyone views death and suffering the same way. He certainly could hold the opinions he has and still have seen how the virus makes mince meat of the vulnerable.
I was deathly ill with COVID for 30+ days and probably should have been hospitalized; if it weren’t for my cpap machine at home that I began using 24/7 to get my skin to go back to normal I’d probably be dead now. I have severe asthma and broncheactasis. Now I’m on powerful medication for asthma/COPD just to function. I don’t think I’ve ever been more scared that I was about to check out in my life. That doesn’t stop me from feeling exactly like @A Hit With The Ladies feels vis-à-vis liberties and the futility of lockdown, or the acceptability of the deaths that are occurring when weighed against the impact this debacle of lockdowns, etc. has caused.

It’s not so much a view of death and suffering so much as the recklessness of it - many of these people didn’t have to die.

However, I’m curious- what is your data, your sources RE: such futility?

You (and AHWTL) appear to have an either/or approach - either you stay in a plastic bubble or are doomed to stay indoors, quarantined ... or are free to go with whimsy. The simple middle ground - a mandatory mask, for example - is an infringement of rights, a debacle, etc.

Rights =\ lack of responsibility. We are seeing first hand how “responsible” those in Texas, or Florida, have been ... and what it has led to.

Again, the NE was hard hit back in April/May. Here we are now:

http://c-hit.org/2020/07/07/coronavirus-faqs-resources/

https://www.Google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/new-data-shows-ct-on-track-to-contain-covid-19/2298588/%3famp

This was us then:

https://www.Google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-connecticut-death-rate-covid-20200501-t47wbjyqebc5hcqrzcsthkv7fu-story.html%3foutputType=amp

CT is hardly trampling on our “rights” - mainly because residents are clearly out and about, dining outside/vacationing/working/etc. I’ll happily wear a mask to keep getting my hair cut, or to see family.

The sad part - the recklessness of such “responsible” American citizens is going to stop this - again. Businesses will close, schools won’t open. People that didn’t have to die are going to die - again. People equate “rights” with lack of responsibility, and what an unAmerican concept that is.

A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2020

1 hour ago, pixierose said:
Businesses will close, schools won’t open. People that didn’t have to die are going to die - again.

That's flat-out wrong. Thank heavens Governor Abbott will ensure that the businesses won't close. The Texas Education Agency (TEA) has been adamant that in-person classes for the fall WILL happen at all public schools. And the death rate has essentially collapsed (probably because the virus has gotten weaker).

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2020

1 hour ago, damiorifice said:
IMO they only became futile because the collective will of the people has been to just get this over with.
There’s no questioning that everyone staying at there houses or walking around in veritable plastic bubbles sure does help stop the spread of disease, it’s just untenable.
idealism always eventually meets up with reality, and the two cannot coexist.

Social distancing, good hand hygeine, and wearing a face covering is not living in a bubble, and to be frank, it's not even very difficult to do. Requiring a facial covering is not an assault on civil liberty any more than a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" policy is.

I don't disagree that much of the problem here relates to the will of the people. We live in a country where people are so fragile that if they can't do exactly as they want they crumble.