I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
Wow, okay, I spent six years of my life being molested by two men, so definitely not trying to shut women up about what they've suffered when I've experienced it as well.
A comment was made that men are the ones causing problems, and I made a comment back. My response may not have been relevant to the discussion as a whole, but it was relevant to THAT comment.
This whole thread has derailed into an argument that is going no where anyway so I guess I will just bite my tongue on anything else I would like to comment on for the duration.
Much of this thread has been one group of similar-minded people telling women to get our **** together to avoid being raped, and another group trying to explain that that's just not how it works. I'm exhausted and depleted and I'm angry and I'm over it.
Someone asked you to clarify and your response, well, didn't clarify, what your intent was. I'm trying not to be rude to people who are genuinely trying to contribute to the conversation, so if I misunderstood you, I apologize.
Of course they can. But the vast majority of rapists are male. And I didn't really expect anyone to take that suggestion seriously. Although if they did, it makes more sense than locking up all the females so they can't be raped.
I realized that after I went back and read your comment again, but by that time, it was too late for me to edit my post. My apologies for the error.
Specializes in long term care Alzheimers Patients.
Again, I don't know how old YOU are, Kooky, but I'm in my 60s and while I did grow up much differently than the millenials, nothing about my upbringing included being told that if I didn't dress modestly, control my alcohol intake and remain pure until marriage I deserved to be raped.
I'm in my late fifties . Also grew up much differently than the millennials . I couldn ' t agree more than what you said Ruby .
I've been lurking on this thread from the beginning and I just wanted to say how grateful I am that there are such vociferous champions for women's and victims' rights on here.
I've been brought to tears many times by the compassion voiced by macawake and NAWWRN, among others.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I wish there were more people like you in the world, particularly my part of it!
Spidey's Mom - with all due respect - none of us really knows what we'd do in a given situation until we're in it. I think I'd take the approach you say you would. It seems reasonable. But who knows?
With all due respect, you aren't me. And I know what I would do.
Again, I don't know how old YOU are, Kooky, but I'm in my 60s and while I did grow up much differently than the millenials, nothing about my upbringing included being told that if I didn't dress modestly, control my alcohol intake and remain pure until marriage I deserved to be raped.
Ruby, I never said anyone DESERVED to be raped if they didn't use sound judgment. Go back and actually read what I wrote.
I'm kind of surprised at you, I have always thought more highly of you, I have assumed that you had actually read what I said.
I feel like there is a real disconnect here and I don't understand why.
Should people, in general, take realistic precautions to protect themselves? Of course they should. If something goes on to happen despite those precautions are they to blame - even in part? Of course not. I lock my doors, leave my porch light on. I have big dogs with loud barks. I hold my keys a certain way when I'm walking to my car after class. I park in well lit areas and when I do go out for drinks, I make sure someone around me is totally sober.
Rape isn't a crime that's committed because the person was just too sexy to resist, or she showed too much of her legs and the perpetrator couldn't help himself. Rape is about power, not sex. If someone is going to rape someone else, it won't matter what's being worn or how someone is behaving. It's because they've been chosen. And if that person wasn't chosen, someone else will be. When we talk about the victims clothing, or what she was drinking, we're being disingenuous - because those things have nothing to do with rape.
People keep bringing up the fact that men get raped, too - of course they do. But when is the last time you heard about what the man was wearing? Probably never.
My rapist was methodical in dealings with me. He secured my friendship. He moved into the same apartment complex that I lived in. He gained my trust. He planned everything out, from start to finish. He saw me in short skirts and sweat pants. He saw me with a few beers and totally sober. He didn't want to have sex with me - he never even tried. He wanted to control me - for me to fear him because that's what this type of crime is all about.
So yes, I'll encourage my daughters to take reasonable precautions and be safe. Because everyone should. But I won't teach them that how they dress excuses how anyone treats them. Because it doesn't, and if you think it does, you're part of the problem.
I am truly sorry for what you experienced. He sounds like a total sicko.
Did anyone here say that how a person dresses EXCUSES a rapist? I know I specifically said that a woman's condition (drunk, passed out drunk, stoned, dressed provocatively, being flirtatious, whatever) does not excuse a rapist's behavior.
Troll be quiet and be gone. You're annoying and no one agrees with you. You are a fake Christian who have the nerve to thump your damn bible. If this is how you really think, you are surely a vile loser!
Very immature. Act this way in school and you will be bounced right out, Mini.
And just try it on the job. You'll grow up fast.
Try knocking a person's religion at work and you'll be escorted off of the premises by HR and Security.
And your fedora remark is lost on me. I don't know what you meant by it. So if it was meant to hurt, better luck next time. If you want to put someone down, make sure to explain yourself.
Name-calling also violates TOS (troll, vile loser). Thump, thump.
Sorry to sink to your level. I'm not as good at turning the other cheek as Jesus was.
I've testified in several dozen rape cases. I have never, not once, heard the "I'm just a girl" defense come out. How would that even sound like in real life? And what the blazes do you mean by defense anyway? You know that the rape victim sits with the prosecution side in a trial. The one that needs to mount a defense is the alleged rapist. The prosecution has to prove their case. The defendant needs to put up a defense.
I don't know what the "fairer sex" means to you. It's an archaic expression and I have no idea which exact character traits you assign someone labeled this way.
I'm trying very hard to decipher the exact nature of the hypocrisy you think is present. It's clear as mud to me.
Is it something like this? Admit to belonging to the fairer sex and be granted the privilege/right to feel wronged if a man strikes you or rapes you and have the expectation that the criminal justice system will agree that a crime has been committed against you.
But..
claim that you don't think that the label "the fairer sex" applies to you.. then... what? You've lost that right? Do you also lose any other legal and human rights in the process?
Your own words; either women are the fairer sex, or they aren't.
What does that really mean, in plain English?
I'm 186 cm tall, or 6' 1". I'm very muscular, the gym is pretty much my second home. There's hardly any fat on my frame. I'm as physically strong as many men, stronger than some, weaker than others. I don't ask that men lift boxes for me. If a man goes through a door right in front of me, I expect him to hold it up for me. If I go through a door right in front of a man, I will hold it up for him. It's common courtesy. (What do the darn doors and boxes have to do with rape, anyway?) I'm not particularly pure and virginal. (I thought that I should mention that part, since one of the many definitions of "the fairer sex" seems to involve purity).
Okay, now that we've established that. If I were to get raped, would I qualify as a victim in your book? Does the fact that I'm physically strong mean that I don't qualify as a victim? Or does the fact that I don't ask for help with box-lifting mean that I do? I really do need to ask, because I don't understand your logic at all.
As I said, I don't ask men to lift boxes for me but if I did... then what are the arenas that I should no longer try to "compete with men" in?
Which rights specifically that a man has by default does a woman in your opinion have to forfeit, in order to be regarded as a bona fide rape victim when she is raped? You did after all say that we shouldn't act all empowered and equal.
Kooky Korky has said that men can be open to rape charges if they "misstep" and that it's a lie that especially women can "have it all", all the time because of biological facts of life. I asked him to clarify what exactly characterizes one of those missteps, what the biological facts are and exactly what the "all" entails, that we (women) can't have all the time. I'm waiting for him to shed some light on that.
I don't do well with evasive, cryptical and vague. I really prefer straight answers.
As I mentioned a few paragraphs back, I really would appreciate it if you could share what specifically what you think that women can't do (but men are allowed to) if they want to retain the right of saying "the big bad guy raped me". (In your own wording and I must admit, it did surprise me somewhat).
By the way, I don't think that anyone has made the claim that men and women are the same (that would be rather silly),only that men and women should be afforded equal rights and freedoms.
Biology means women do the conceiving and growing of babies, give birth (a tremendous feat), do most of the care of newborns, as well as the lion's share of running a household and making a home for families, at least that is my experience. Because of these facts, it seems to me that it is more difficult for a woman to succeed in the world of work. Now read this carefully. I DID NOT say that women can't or don't succeed outside the home. I said I think it's more difficult.
These days, there are a great many women in probably most if not all fields of work in the US. Some work two jobs to make ends meet, some just one, and they still make homes for their families. I admire this.
Misstep = being alone with a woman, not doing anything wrong or out of line, just giving her an opportunity to make a false accusation. And don't tell me it never or rarely happens or how insignificant it is for that to happen.
maybe being accused of misleading a woman;
Doctor was accused of touching a teen's breast improperly. Chaperones, thank God he had two, said he was listening to her heart under and around left breast, in a proper fashion. Misperception = false charge, investigated by the state, cleared.
NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN
791 Posts
Much of this thread has been one group of similar-minded people telling women to get our **** together to avoid being raped, and another group trying to explain that that's just not how it works. I'm exhausted and depleted and I'm angry and I'm over it.
Someone asked you to clarify and your response, well, didn't clarify, what your intent was. I'm trying not to be rude to people who are genuinely trying to contribute to the conversation, so if I misunderstood you, I apologize.