I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
Most men can control their reaction to a lovely woman who is dressed alluringly and don't take criminal action. Some men can't or choose not to control it or they have other thinking that is perhaps set off by seeing a beautiful woman who seems, perhaps, vulnerable. Why tempt, however unintentionally?
Some men can't control it. He said the victims cause rape by being too attractive and the rapists "can't" stop themselves.
I un-ignored for a minute because I wanted to check if the reporting of religious posts was fallout from my one post that mentioned it (I don't think it was). Back to that nifty ignore feature...
Most men can control their reaction to a lovely woman who is dressed alluringly and don't take criminal action. Some men can't or choose not to control it or they have other thinking that is perhaps set off by seeing a beautiful woman who seems, perhaps, vulnerable. Why tempt, however unintentionally?
(The following story is purely fictional, don't take it seriously).
I get this very strong, irrisistible homicidal urge whenever I see a blond man. I can't control it. There are some people like me in the world, who don't respect blond men. I think it's sensible to advice blond men to be more circumspect. I don't think that it's wise for blond men to go to parties and other social functions and flaunt their blonde hair. If they insist on going anyway, they should at least bring a squadron of Navy SEALs as chaperones, and never wander off with strange women without their chaperones.
Of course if I should act on my urge and kill some blond man at some party, it's 100% my responsibility. I'm 100% at fault. (or at least I MAY be). After all, murder is against the law. BUT!! I wouldn't have had the chance to kill him if he'd had the good sense to stay at home instead!!
Seeing as nut cases like myself exist, it's only sensible that blond men dye their hair some other less alluring and risky color, or at the very least don a brown/black/red wig to minimize the risk that they expose themselves to. (Wearing for example a baseball cap won't suffice because an errant blond strand or two could still show, and that's enough to set me off). Sure, it can be argued that blond men should have the right to have their natural hair color. But really, why TEMPT ME?!? (however unintentionally). Ahem...
I'm quite certain that my story sounds absolutely absurd to 100% of readers. Rightfully so.
It's because my logic is grotesque. It's because I'm making someone else responsible to for my criminal acts.
I encourage anyone who rejects my admittedly absurd argument but doesn't instinctively reject it, when it's instead applied to women and rapists, to take a long hard look at their own biases. Ask yourself, why do you think that something sounds (and is) so absurd just because I changed the role of the perpetrator and victim around, yet in your mind amounts to sensible precautions when the roles are reversed.
Completely unrelated to the rest of my post;
@canigraduate. Thank you so much for your kind words. They mean a lot.
I get this very strong, irrisistible homicidal urge whenever I see a blond man.
I saw a picture once of a guy wearing a shirt that said "kill me." He said "If someone kills me, is that ok? After all, I was asking for it. Or is it still wrong because killing people is wrong?"
Completely unrelated to the rest of my post;
@canigraduate. Thank you so much for your kind words. They mean a lot.
Yes, same here. I'm sorry that slipped by me before. It means the world to have some support.
(The following story is purely fictional, don't take it seriously).
I get this very strong, irrisistible homicidal urge whenever I see a blond man. I can't control it. There are some people like me in the world, who don't respect blond men. I think it's sensible to advice blond men to be more circumspect. I don't think that it's wise for blond men to go to parties and other social functions and flaunt their blonde hair. If they insist on going anyway, they should at least bring a squadron of Navy SEALs as chaperones, and never wander off with strange women without their chaperones.
Of course if I should act on my urge and kill some blond man at some party, it's 100% my responsibility. I'm 100% at fault. (or at least I MAY be). After all, murder is against the law. BUT!! I wouldn't have had the chance to kill him if he'd had the good sense to stay at home instead!!
Seeing as nut cases like myself exist, it's only sensible that blond men dye their hair some other less alluring and risky color, or at the very least don a brown/black/red wig to minimize the risk that they expose themselves to. (Wearing for example a baseball cap won't suffice because an errant blond strand or two could still show, and that's enough to set me off). Sure, it can be argued that blond men should have the right to have their natural hair color. But really, why TEMPT ME?!? (however unintentionally). Ahem...
I'm quite certain that my story sounds absolutely absurd to 100% of readers. Rightfully so.
It's because my logic is grotesque. It's because I'm making someone else responsible to for my criminal acts.
I encourage anyone who rejects my admittedly absurd argument but doesn't instinctively reject it, when it's instead applied to women and rapists, to take a long hard look at their own biases. Ask yourself, why do you think that something sounds (and is) so absurd just because I changed the role of the perpetrator and victim around, yet in your mind amounts to sensible precautions when...
It makes me wonder what if, the mother was the nurse on duty taking care of the rape victim, I wonder if she would still be delusional and protect her son. If you saw all the first hand I doubt you would be able to defend him.
I've been lurking on this thread from the beginning and I just wanted to say how grateful I am that there are such vociferous champions for women's and victims' rights on here.
I've been brought to tears many times by the compassion voiced by macawake and NAWWRN, among others.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I wish there were more people like you in the world, particularly my part of it!
Me too, I've checked this thread daily. It seems silly to use the word "proud" but I have felt very proud of my fellow nurses who have defended (and it should never need defending, it should be entirely self-evident) a person's right never to be raped. And maintained that defence in a passionate but articulate, logical and eloquent manner. Thank you from me as well.
Okay, it was CLEARLY a poor analogy. A river is natural. A river flooding its banks is a natural force of nature. Comparing rape to a river is like saying rape is a natural reaction of man.
you are stretching. please note that i am behind the stanford victim, not the perp. If you choose to be that purposefully misunderstanding there is nothing i can do for you.
But you keep saying that rape can be prevented if the victims just behave in a the manner you prescribe. It's not ABOUT how the victims behave; it's about how the rapists behave. The more you say, the less you seem to get that.
Some rapes can be prevented, although, since they are prevented, we don't know about them.
A number of people here who have been victims have stated that they believe in preventive measures. Their opinions should count for something. Even some here who have not stated they were victims teach their daughters to use wisdom and sound judgment re: social life, crime prevention - after they tore me to shreds for suggesting preventive measures, common sense safety measures.
Ruby, I think you just don't want to understand or accept what I have actually said. I have stated, restated, explained, and reiterated and you still don't want to accept my explanations.
So just believe what you like and behave as you like. I have no say over what you do or how you live. It does rather make me wonder why you, as a DV survivor, got out of your bad situation. Why not just stay in it? Why try to prevent further trouble? Prevention is so often key in life and you used that approach, for which you should be applauded. But why you don't see it for rape prevention I don't know.
I have never said victims are to blame or that they deserved to be victims. I have stated that rapists are sick people, otherwise they would not rape. No, not all rapes can be prevented. Kids, nuns, old women in their homes - the rapists in these cases are super sickos and these victims are not to blame.
The Stanford victim didn't deserve to be raped either. Nor do men in jail.
Do you have statistics or references on men who are falsely accused of rape? You say it's a miniscule number. How do you know? You more or less say that it's ok for men to be falsely accused because of how many women actually report rape and because women who report have a long row to hoe in our criminal justice system. And they do, I agree. But it's not ok for a man to be falsely accused because of that. Even if you think it is, it's not. Are you glad the Duke Lacrosse players' lives were upended because of a lying DA (Mike Nifong)? Maybe you figure their and their loved ones' suffering and expenses were good because so many women get raped and suffer during justice system proceedings because they report.
Anyway, be well and I think I'm pretty much done with trying to make myself clear. I hope we can have a decent relationship in the future. IF not, it's ok. As I said, I have always thought pretty highly of you from what I've read here.
It does rather make me wonder why you, as a DV survivor, got out of your bad situation. Why not just stay in it? Why try to prevent further trouble? PRevention is so often key in life and you used that approach, for which you should be applauded. But why you don't see it for rape prevention I don't know.
This might be one of the most offensive posts I've ever read. You truly don't get how ignorant you are, and I feel sorry for you and anyone who has to listen to your beliefs.
Caring for the family and running a household is a social construct; it's not about biology.
Not exactly sure what a social construct is.
What I DID NOT say is that a woman has to do it or should do it.
I said that , in my experience, it is women who do the huge majority of it. Just in case you think I was somehow saying women SHOULD do it.
The saying used to be, from working women, "I need a wife". Meaning they wished they had a housekeeper, laundress, cook, shopper, gardener, payer of bills, etc., all the many, many chores that go into homemaking, especially if you have kids - then you also need a chauffeur and taker-of-kids to doctors and various extra-curricular activities (sports, dance, music, parties, etc.)
Oh, good Lord! You're still harping on that false accusation of rape business.
As much garbage as actual rape victims have to put up with when they report a rape, precious few women are going to report a rape that didn't actually happen. Yes, there have been a few instances where that happened, but it's rare. It's rare compared to the rapes that actually get reported. Then when you consider how many rapes don't get reported because the victim doesn't want to put up with the nasty questions and insinuations from everyone she knows AND the rapists lawyers, false reports are a miniscule percentage.
Macawake asked me to define what I meant and that's what I've done.
It makes me wonder what if, the mother was the nurse on duty taking care of the rape victim, I wonder if she would still be delusional and protect her son. If you saw all the first hand I doubt you would be able to defend him.
She's not delusional, she's his mother.
We don't throw our kids away when they mess up. We stand by people we love. We correct our kids and let them know when they have done wrong and help them to turn around, make restitution, etc. But they are always our kids.
NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN
791 Posts
And this, from post 296:
Some men can't control it. He said the victims cause rape by being too attractive and the rapists "can't" stop themselves.
I un-ignored for a minute because I wanted to check if the reporting of religious posts was fallout from my one post that mentioned it (I don't think it was). Back to that nifty ignore feature...