Riots in Minneapolis

Published

Remember when MLK jr said, "To further the cause of social justice go down the street and rob and loot your neighbors." Me neither, because it didn't happen.

I fully sympathize with the situation in Minneapolis and the death of George Floyd. I believe in due process, but after seeing the video I was sickened by the police officer's actions. He did not need to have his knee of the neck of a man who was handcuffed and held down by two other officers. His excessive force caused the death of Floyd. He was fired and he will be arrested and charged. There will be a court case and evidence will be presented and a verdict delivered.

That's how our system works. It does not work by robbing your neighbors and destroying their livelihoods. There is no cause that is furthered by the looter's actions. There is no traction gained. Their actions haven't changed policy and ensured that justice was done. It was simply a group of people who took the opportunity to steal and destroy for personal gain. The looters are selfish because they took some of the spotlight away from George Floyd and now the nation sees another example people run amok without furthering their agenda or making any positive strides.

If the looters actually cared about Floyd or the social cause they speak of they would take civil action. It worked in the past and it would work again. The Montgomery bus boycott changed policy. But it wasn't easy, it was certainly harder than breaking glass and stealing a tv. And therein lies the problem. It's easy to riot, it's easy to steal and claim "XYZ caused me to loot." It's hard to organize like-minded people and bring about change. It takes time, grit and determination. Think how much better things would be if the thousands of people who looted and rioted got together and voted for change. They could elect someone who could enact policies to prevent something like this from happening again. That's how our system works, not by destroying your own neighborhood.

Specializes in ED, psych.
18 minutes ago, LovingPeds said:

That's just it. The whole point. They're not my experiences. They are other people's experiences that I see vicariously. The majority of the US population is whitewashed to some extent. If there is any hope of long-term change, you have to change people's perceptions and looting won't do that. These perceptions are the very thing that supports the sick ideology that is racism and the very reason unarmed people keep dying.

We need to build communities and bridges. Not raze them to the ground.

But my whole point? You can’t build a community if you have to worry constantly about being shot by the people who are supposed to protect you. So many communities are built under White privilege to begin with: segregated and poor, with little opportunity.

We are arguing for the same thing; you seem to be taking a giant leap to get there, to me. We can’t build the community with the racial inequality - it truly is a public health issue.

Peaceful protesting? Great. All for it.

Violence, stealing, rioting, destroying? Not acceptable. No justification whatsoever.

There is no excuse for the latter. None. And if anyone justifies it, excuses it, glorifies it, I’m sorry, he/she is part of the problem. Innocent people are having their businesses destroyed. Innocent people are being hurt. Innocent police officers are being attacked. City property is being damaged and destroyed. Who pays the price for that? Us.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, LovingPeds said:

That's just it. The whole point. They're not my experiences. They are other people's experiences that I see vicariously. The majority of the US population is whitewashed to some extent. If there is any hope of long-term change, you have to change people's perceptions and looting won't do that. These perceptions are the very thing that supports the sick ideology that is racism and the very reason unarmed people keep dying.

We need to build communities and bridges. Not raze them to the ground.

I take from your words that you presume that most of the looting and destruction is initiated or perpetrated by those protesting for equal justice and freedom from pillow brutality. I don't agree with that.

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
2 hours ago, Undercat said:

Trump is the only person I have ever heard call Antifa a left wing group. When did violent fascists become associated with liberalism?

I was with hundreds of nurses protesting unsafe staffing in Oakland, California. We had a permit, and police escort at intersections. Suddenly about 15 young men wearing black came up from Bart (subway). They brought rocks from their pockets to break windows, stole from the CVS, and started a fire in a trash can. In less than ten minutes they were gone back down to the train. I was told they were ANTIFA.

PS: The press we got eventually helped us win safe staffing ratios.

The law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=199920000AB394

The regulations: https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/I8612C410941F11E29091E6B951DDF6CE?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
15 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I take from your words that you presume that most of the looting and destruction is initiated or perpetrated by those protesting for equal justice and freedom from pillow brutality. I don't agree with that.

Please, before you presume, read my other posts. I don't believe that those protesting for equal justice and freedom are doing the majority of the looting. I don't believe that because anyone with a grain of common sense realizes that can run counter to what they are trying to achieve. The majority of the peaceful protesters are law abiding citizens who are legally protesting true injustice.

Anyone who breaks down into looting and destroying things has put their personal desires above that of the cause they're supposed to be championing. I would go so far as to wager that a lot of the looters aren't there so much to fight injustice as to take advantage of the fact they can use the situation for personal gain whether by gaining a new TV, street cred for setting a fire, or to further a political agenda.

It's a real shame because so much of the narrative that needs to be told is being hijacked by the chaos.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 minute ago, LovingPeds said:

Please, before you presume, read my other posts. I don't believe that those protesting for equal justice and freedom are doing the majority of the looting. I don't believe that because anyone with a grain of common sense realizes that can run counter to what they are trying to achieve. The majority of the peaceful protesters are law abiding citizens who are legally protesting true injustice.

Anyone who breaks down into looting and destroying things has put their personal desires above that of the cause they're supposed to be championing. I would go so far as to wager that a lot of the looters aren't there so much to fight injustice as to take advantage of the fact they can use the situation for personal gain whether by gaining a new TV or street cred for setting a fire.

It's a real shame because so much of the narrative that needs to be told is being hijacked by the chaos.

Thank you for that clarification.

Please consider that many of the rioters have nefarious agendas, seeking to cause trouble for the protesters. They provide the justification for confrontational and violent policing.

Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
17 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Thank you for that clarification.

Please consider that many of the rioters have nefarious agendas, seeking to cause trouble for the protesters. They provide the justification for confrontational and violent policing.

I've said that from the start. There is no justification for the looting, but I'm not arguing the point of justification.

As I have said multiple times, I look at actions - not words. Looting runs counter to the protester's agenda. Why would someone sabotage their own cause and in protesting police brutality take actions such as stealing and arson which could by all points increase the very thing they are protesting against? No. A true protester of police brutality will hold a peaceful protest because the whole point is to demonstrate against the unnecessary deadly force the police are taking. They're more likely to stage a march or sit-in than loot.

Look at the looter's actions. They're stealing, beating, shooting (in some areas), and burning. What is the outcome of that? Increased police force, presence, and action. That runs completely counter to the agenda of the protesters. There is nothing to be gained by that for the protesters.

Furthermore, given the associations being made between the looters and the protesters by the general media and masses, the looting is detrimental to the cause of the real protesters. That's what I've been saying. The looting is a way to undermine the legitimate protest by giving or confirming negative perceptions about the "protesters" which are then used to "justify" the status quo. Whether this is intentional or not, only the ones doing this will really ever know.

2 hours ago, Undercat said:

Trump is the only person I have ever heard call Antifa a left wing group. When did violent fascists become associated with liberalism?

Antifa is most definitely a violent far left group. Google what they did in Portland. There is video of them attacking and harassing elderly citizens who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Of course Trump wants people to talk and worry about antifa when the real problem we are trying to address is the white supremacy and racist attitudes which persist in our police departments across the country. Trump definitely wants to talk about antifa and not that racism problem.

3 hours ago, zbb13 said:

Peaceful protesting? Great. All for it.

Violence, stealing, rioting, destroying? Not acceptable. No justification whatsoever.

There is no excuse for the latter. None. And if anyone justifies it, excuses it, glorifies it, I’m sorry, he/she is part of the problem. Innocent people are having their businesses destroyed. Innocent people are being hurt. Innocent police officers are being attacked. City property is being damaged and destroyed. Who pays the price for that? Us.

Innocent police officers? They are not innocent. Police is a criminal organization and they actually loot also but it's called confiscation. They cover up all the I abuse they commit.Have you seen what's going on? Last night in NYC 2 Police SUV's ran people over- you should take a look at the video if you have not seen it yet, they literally drove over the crowd, over people. People are being shot at, pushed to the ground, kicked violently. This is what's unacceptable. How is it unacceptable to you to destroy property, lifeless objects yet it is acceptable to destroy (injure and kill innocent people?) I can't understand your critical thinking because you either lack it or you're misinformed. I am just going to assume you watch Fox news and simply have a skewed idea of what's going on.

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Of course Trump wants people to talk and worry about antifa when the real problem we are trying to address is the white supremacy and racist attitudes which persist in our police departments across the country. Trump definitely wants to talk about antifa and not that racism problem.

This exactly! You nailed it! Antifa stands for anti fascism so I guess Trump is an anti-anti fascist = a fascist. Remember logic in math class? LOL

7 hours ago, LovingPeds said:

Please, before you presume, read my other posts. I don't believe that those protesting for equal justice and freedom are doing the majority of the looting. I don't believe that because anyone with a grain of common sense realizes that can run counter to what they are trying to achieve. The majority of the peaceful protesters are law abiding citizens who are legally protesting true injustice.

Anyone who breaks down into looting and destroying things has put their personal desires above that of the cause they're supposed to be championing. I would go so far as to wager that a lot of the looters aren't there so much to fight injustice as to take advantage of the fact they can use the situation for personal gain whether by gaining a new TV, street cred for setting a fire, or to further a political agenda.

It's a real shame because so much of the narrative that needs to be told is being hijacked by the chaos.

Part of the problem is assuming that “peaceful protest” and “lawful assembly” is still possible in this country - it’s not. The peaceful protests over the Dakota pipeline were met with new laws justifying militarized police action.

sure, on a Sunday morning “quilters against the tampon tax” will be allowed to protest for a couple hours, as long as there aren’t enough of them to matter..

bring 10,000 actual “grassroots” protesters to any town in this country & you’re going to see the police turn into people who shoot unarmed people with pepper balls, arrest and rough up journalists & “herd” protesters into arrest traps. The police are trained to “put down” protests, not to accept them or god forbid, learn from them.

streaming media makes it possible for anyone who cares to watch to see it for themselves. I watched a couple nights of Houston protests turn into an “arrest trap” for peaceful protests.. the protesters were guided by blocked streets into a box, the box is “closed off” by police, protesters are ordered to “disperse” (but aren’t allowed to disperse because the box is closed-off by armed officers), then everyone is arrested for “blocking streets” or some other nonsense. In Houston, a few hundred non-violent protesters were scooped up each night using the “box” technique. Did you hear about it? Prolly not.. you just assumed the few hundred people arrested were “thugs” - the narrative given by the police. Houston’s “box” on Saturday night happened conveniently just before 10 pm, giving the 11 o’clock news an opportunity to show a few dozen peaceful protesters to be “perp walked” in zip-ties to satisfy the “law-and-order” crowd, while ignoring 99% of the actual criminals who were out.

This is widespread and pervasive. You don’t actually have any right to protest your government anymore. This fact leads to escalating tension.

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