Remember when MLK jr said, "To further the cause of social justice go down the street and rob and loot your neighbors." Me neither, because it didn't happen.
I fully sympathize with the situation in Minneapolis and the death of George Floyd. I believe in due process, but after seeing the video I was sickened by the police officer's actions. He did not need to have his knee of the neck of a man who was handcuffed and held down by two other officers. His excessive force caused the death of Floyd. He was fired and he will be arrested and charged. There will be a court case and evidence will be presented and a verdict delivered.
That's how our system works. It does not work by robbing your neighbors and destroying their livelihoods. There is no cause that is furthered by the looter's actions. There is no traction gained. Their actions haven't changed policy and ensured that justice was done. It was simply a group of people who took the opportunity to steal and destroy for personal gain. The looters are selfish because they took some of the spotlight away from George Floyd and now the nation sees another example people run amok without furthering their agenda or making any positive strides.
If the looters actually cared about Floyd or the social cause they speak of they would take civil action. It worked in the past and it would work again. The Montgomery bus boycott changed policy. But it wasn't easy, it was certainly harder than breaking glass and stealing a tv. And therein lies the problem. It's easy to riot, it's easy to steal and claim "XYZ caused me to loot." It's hard to organize like-minded people and bring about change. It takes time, grit and determination. Think how much better things would be if the thousands of people who looted and rioted got together and voted for change. They could elect someone who could enact policies to prevent something like this from happening again. That's how our system works, not by destroying your own neighborhood.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, LovingPeds said:
I don't trust anyone from either side of our political system if I'm honest. Every one of them (from both sides) has an agenda that puts themselves in a position to gain power (political, financial, or otherwise) usually at the expense of the general public. It's almost like picking out which apple is the least rotten. Right now, 'right wing crazies' and 'far left liberals' are so out of touch with the majority of the population who just want to live their lives with their family, friends, and neighbors in peace that it is unfathomable.
Where are you getting information about the agendas being acted out in our political theater? The ability to live one's lives in peace is exactly what the protests are about...because that simple desire is denied again and again to unarmed black men, by white men and police across this country. That's a 400 year tradition of stealing the hope and futures from black men in America.
Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
2 hours ago, pixierose said:
I read an article, and a quote stuck out - “People wanna say we’re destroying our own neighborhoods, we don’t own nothing out here!”
The Civil Rights movement lost its war despite winning a few battles. An entire people has been dominated through law, wages and yes - violence (as all these deaths of young black men has shown us).
You say it’s short sighted. But has anything worked? Businesses leave. But people keep dying, horrifically.
I'm aware of the truth about not owning anything. I addressed it in an earlier post. It's a huge crisis here in my area.
Ten years ago there wasn't a single black family in my neighborhood. Now it's a fairly diverse population. When the first black family moved in, my grandmother who had lived here since the 1940's sat at the window watching the new owner cut his grass. Know what she said? She said "Thank god. They've cut the grass. I'm glad they sold it to someone who looks like they're going to maintain the property." The previous owner was a middle aged white man who did not cut his grass all Summer long despite numerous calls to the city from almost all of his neighbors. This was a woman who lived as a white woman during Jim Crow. Things are changing, it's just at a frustratingly slow pace. The local country club is still pretty much 'white only' because they use economics and a "voting on admission" process that excludes anyone they don't want.
But things will not change faster if you have part of a population who can at any point look at something and "justify" (even if in their own minds) the way things are. If you read the comments on some of these news sites about the protests when they turn violent. In true sickening online anon form people make racist comments about people behaving like "animals" and the "13% doing what they do best". Thousands of them. If you want true change, you have to change public opinion. Every one of us can probably find more people to condemn the looting than to support it and as far as they're concerned the moment people started looting, they lost their support. It's true. Otherwise you wouldn't have little poster things with sayings like the one above pointing out the problem in that thought process.
Has anything worked? Yes. When you pull funding and support from the community level, you see change. When people get off their *** and put their money and time where their mouth is, you see change and I'm not talking walking down a street in a protest. I'm talking getting invested with the children and families in these communities through schools, churches, outreach programs and building them up so that the perception changes for all involved. When the perception changes, the actions will follow.
The perceptions that black people work against daily are unfair and largely untrue for the large majority of the population. However, when you have the violent few overshadowing the peaceful, hardworking, honest, and good people in the media, it's counterproductive to changing the very perception that lets racists justify the horror that is racism.
Police departments are indeed local, but they get their tasers, mraps, bayonets & night-vision scopes with grants from the feebs.
So *militarized* police are a gift from the feds.
and a huge source of the pervasive hopelessness is courtesy of the supreme court’s interpretation of qualified immunity for cops.
take away qualified immunity for cops & replace it with actual accountability for criminal acts - and there isn’t much need for protesters or riots.
right now there is lots of authority given to police, without any real accountability. The police investigate the police, and suprise, no problem is ever found.
On the rare occasion that an officer gets charged, prosecutors often softball & guilty cops walk, emboldened further by immunity from civil action.
cops don’t need immunity. It’s a bad idea and the supremes have made it impossible to hold the guilty accountable. There’s no reason cops shouldn’t have to carry professional Liability Insurance, just like nurses and truck drivers do. It fixes a lot of problems. If a truck driver has a drinking problem, the liability insurance is ridiculously expensive and they go away - to be replaced by someone who isn’t a danger to the public.
this is actually very easy to fix. No civil immunity for cops per state legislation & real civilian oversight with independent investigators - just like we do for nurses. Even states and cities that currently have “civilian oversight” don’t actually have any real police-like powers. They’re toothless & that’s how we got where we are.
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends” - MLK
That’s what helped get us here. This has happened multiple times every year - Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Breonna Taylor, Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, Dominique Clayton ... MLK was over half a century ago.
We now have a leader who is stoking the flames of racism for personal benefit.
it's really heartbreaking! America is in big trouble
Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
36 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Where are you getting information about the agendas being acted out in our political theater? The ability to live one's lives in peace is exactly what the protests are about...because that simple desire is denied again and again to unarmed black men, by white men and police across this country. That's a 400 year tradition of stealing the hope and futures from black men in America.
Unfathomable.
As I have said, actions speak louder than words and always tell the truth. When the words and the actions (and their results) don't match, there is a problem. I've known local senators and congressmen who are elected on the support of poor minorities. These politicians state all these plans that are going to improve and change things. At the end of the day, the only thing that changes is the politician builds a new house in a better area.
You don't think I know that the desire is denied? The majority of my patients are black and/or poor because I'm in an area where that is the population majority. I've seen young black men caught by stray bullets only to be treated by the doctor they were admitted to like they were the ones doing the shooting rather than just some poor kid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I had to beg the doctor to give the kid some morphine after he'd gone in and pressed all over the injured area without it.
I may not experience this in the same way that someone poor and black would, but I know it. I see it. I live it through what I see. I live it every day in the faces and stories of those I spend my time with. That statement is made like I don't understand. This is what I see on a daily basis. My exact area a few counties over is actually economically poorer than this one. This is the daily reality of a lot of black people in the US straight from the heart of the 'black belt'.
Peaceful protest is one thing. Rioting and looting is another. One seeks to support the community. The other tears it down. I've seen where that path goes. We'll have to agree to disagree there.
I'm aware of the thruth about not owning anything. I addressed it in an earlier post. It's a huge crisis here in my area.
Ten years ago there wasn't a single black family in my neighborhood. Now it's a fairly diverse population. When the first black family moved in, my grandmother who had lived here since the 1940's sat at the window watching the new owner cut his grass. Know what she said? She said "Thank god. They've cut the grass. I'm glad they sold it to someone who looks like they're going to maintain the property." The previous owner was a middle aged white man who did not cut his grass all Summer long despite numerous calls to the city from almost all of his neighbors. This was a woman who lived as a white woman during Jim Crow. Things are changing, it's just at a frustratingly slow pace. The local country club is still pretty much 'white only' because they use economics and a "voting on admission" process that excludes anyone they don't want.
But things will not change faster if you have part of a population who can at any point look at something and "justify" (even if in their own minds) the way things are. If you read the comments on some of these news sites about the protests when they turn violent. In true sickening online anon form people make racist comments about people behaving like "animals" and the "13% doing what they do best". Thousands of them. If you want true change, you have to change public opinion. Every one of us can probably find more people to condemn the looting than to support it and as far as they're concerned the moment people started looting, they lost their support. It's true. Otherwise you wouldn't have little poster things with sayings like the one above pointing out the problem in that thought process.
Has anything worked? Yes. When you pull funding and support from the community level, you see change. When people get off their *** and put their money and time where their mouth is, you see change and I'm not talking walking down a street in a protest. I'm talking getting invested with the children and families in these communities through schools, churches, outreach programs and building them up so that the perception changes for all involved. When the perception changes, the actions will follow.
The perceptions that black people work against daily are unfair and largely untrue for the large majority of the population. However, when you have the violent few overshadowing the peaceful, hardworking, honest, and good people in the media, it's counterproductive to changing the very perception that lets racists justify the horror that is racism.
It’s a very whitewashed perception, looting.
There’s a lot of protesters that don’t agree with looting, and while I agree, I think this (from 2015) is an interesting and heartbreaking perspective:
“So Why Loot Stores? Why Burn Them to the Ground?
You’d have to grow up a young black male in a place like Ferguson to grasp why these stores are the immediate, prime targets for looting and flames. There are 365 days in every year. And on every day of every year of your life you’ve had to walk past these cathedrals of consumer culture and see things you don’t have and can’t get because you have no money, no real education, and very little hope of ever being employed.
Or you grew up seeing your mother, father, sisters or brother slaving away behind the counter in one of these stores for minimum wage or less (part time workers so no health benefits could be earned) and bringing home a pittance for their family to subsist on. Maybe you’ve been behind the counter at Mickey D’s yourself, and it did wonders for your self esteem because you did that instead of going to school; you did that to bring home a few dollars for food and rent. Dead end jobs for dead end, unwanted lives. In the land of the free.
You grew up tagging along with your mother or aunt to shop in these stores using food stamps, coupons, buying only things on sale, and putting up with the stares of the people around you who have real jobs, and can afford to shop without government assistance. And when you go alone into one of these stores, you are immediately followed to see if you’re going to steal anything. If you linger or look around at all, pretty soon some bastard of a white cop will show up to take you outside and check out who you are and what you’re doing in the store, boy.
This is normal times for a brother. And it wears on you, it really does. It gets bleak.”
You lost me with “when you pull funding and support from the community level, you see change.” So, an already disadvantaged minority group is going to lose funding because ??? I hope I’m misunderstanding this...
Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
5 minutes ago, pixierose said:
You lost me with “when you pull funding and support from the community level, you see change.” So, an already disadvantaged minority group is going to lose funding because ??? I hope I’m misunderstanding this...
I meant from the community level toward the black community. Not from it. Such as supporting programs that benefit the local schools, increasing education (which sucks in most of these areas), and supporting the growth of black businesses. Poorly worded.
My perception is whitewashed. I know it. I do not experience things as a black person in my community would. I can't.
But my whole point was in order to gain support from communities with outlooks that are whitewashed, you have to understand the perception looting gives. I'm not arguing against the looting or causes for it. I'm stating that it is counter productive to true change.
As I have said, actions speak louder than words and always tell the truth. When the words and the actions (and their results) don't match, there is a problem. I've known local senators and congressmen who are elected on the support of poor minorities. These politicians state all these plans that are going to improve and change things. At the end of the day, the only thing that changes is the politician builds a new house in a better area.
You don't think I know that the desire is denied? The majority of my patients are black and/or poor because I'm in an area where that is the population majority. I've seen young black men caught by stray bullets only to be treated by the doctor they were admitted to like they were the ones doing the shooting rather than just some poor kid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I had to beg the doctor to give the kid some morphine after he'd gone in and pressed all over the injured area without it.
I may not experience this in the same way that someone poor and black would, but I know it. I see it. I live it through what I see. I live it every day in the faces and stories of those I spend my time with. That statement is made like I don't understand. This is what I see on a daily basis. My exact area a few counties over is actually economically poorer than this one. This is the daily reality of a lot of black people in the US straight from the heart of the 'black belt'.
Peaceful protest is one thing. Rioting and looting is another. One seeks to support the community. The other tears it down. I've seen where that path goes. We'll have to agree to disagree there.
Uh, OK?
I’m a White girl and I agree: we certainly can’t experience this the same way. I won’t even try. That’s why I won’t denounce the looting.
I work in an inner city hospital so ... I’m not sure where you’re going with your experiences here tbh.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
In my county the protesters are not looters. Black SUVs with no license plates block a street near a store whole dozens of looters run in and out stealing from the store. In a few minutes police arrive and they drive off while the police clear the store to prevent fires. Just now on TV it looked like White looters, most with faces covered. Yesterday the did it in Beverly Hills looting Gucci items and many shoe stores.
There have been reports of left wing groups like antifa creating much of the chaos too. Peaceful protestors and journalists like CNN should not be arrested or pepper sprayed. If a person is destroying property, throwing things at cops or looting they should be arrested.
Trump is the only person I have ever heard call Antifa a left wing group. When did violent fascists become associated with liberalism?
Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
12 minutes ago, pixierose said:
Uh, OK?
I’m a White girl and I agree: we certainly can’t experience this the same way. I won’t even try. That’s why I won’t denounce the looting.
I work in an inner city hospital so ... I’m not sure where you’re going with your experiences here tbh.
That's just it. The whole point. They're not my experiences. They are other people's experiences that I see vicariously. The majority of the US population is whitewashed to some extent. If there is any hope of long-term change, you have to change people's perceptions and looting won't do that. These perceptions are the very thing that supports the sick ideology that is racism and the very reason unarmed people keep dying.
We need to build communities and bridges. Not raze them to the ground.
Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator.
11 minutes ago, herring_RN said:
In my county the protesters are not looters. Black SUVs with no license plates block a street near a store whole dozens of looters run in and out stealing from the store. In a few minutes police arrive and they drive off while the police clear the store to prevent fires. Just now on TV it looked like White looters, most with faces covered. Yesterday the did it in Beverly Hills looting Gucci items and many shoe stores.
Yes, that's part of the problem. A number of looters aren't protesters at all, but people taking advantage of the situation in order to loot. The people paying the price are the peaceful protesters whose stories are not being shown or heard over the coverage of the chaos. Even worse, they're being associated with the looting.
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toomuchbaloney
16,055 Posts
Where are you getting information about the agendas being acted out in our political theater? The ability to live one's lives in peace is exactly what the protests are about...because that simple desire is denied again and again to unarmed black men, by white men and police across this country. That's a 400 year tradition of stealing the hope and futures from black men in America.
Unfathomable.