I want to preface my post by saying I am NOT looking to get into a political debate/argument about right wingers/left wingers or any wingers..I am seriously wanting opinions about how to answer these questions as I am having these or similar questions asked of me and I honestly am not sure how to respond other that citing CDC/FDA information.
First, if masks/lockdowns are as effective as some would have people believe, what are places like California and NY, where some of the strictest mask/lockdown restriction were/are, in place having such terrible times with the virus much more than other places that had little or no mask/lockdown requirements?
Secondly, some political and/or social events/protests have been deemed "super spreader" while others have been ignored by experts. It seems those most criticized were Republican/Republican leaning while those ignored/excused were Democratic/Democratic leaning.
Again, I am not looking for political/social arguments, just a way to better answer the questions when asked than I am doing now.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, Jedrnurse said:
I disagree, slightly. Anyone (particularly in a position of responsibility like a governor) with a modicum of intelligence wouldn't have been influenced by Trump's ignorance and lies. (Infused disinfectant, anyone?) Instead I hold those people responsible for their cowardice and not risking the consequencesof rocking the boat.
The evidence suggests otherwise. For GOP state leadership this was about political clout in Trumpworld...you and l know that place, where any criticism of Trump was tantamount to political insurrection against the party leader resulting in a more extreme challenger in the next primary and no party funding.
Yeah...we can hold those governors accountable for their own ignorant policy but it would be a mistake to ignore why they behaved in such a Trumpian manner. Trump was the ringleader of rebellion against mitigation.
The evidence suggests otherwise. For GOP state leadership this was about political clout in Trumpworld...you and l know that place, where any criticism of Trump was tantamount to political insurrection against the party leader resulting in a more extreme challenger in the next primary and no party funding.
Yeah...we can hold those governors accountable for their own ignorant policy but it would be a mistake to ignore why they behaved in such a Trumpian manner. Trump was the ringleader of rebellion against mitigation.
I actually think we stated the same idea, albeit differently. Governors weren't stupid; they were acting to avoid the wrath of Trump. I consider that cowardly.
Yes, Trump is liable, but every lemming that rolled over for him is as well.
I actually think we stated the same idea, albeit differently. Governors weren't stupid; they were acting to avoid the wrath of Trump. I consider that cowardly.
Yes, Trump is liable, but every lemming that rolled over for him is as well.
This is peripheral to the point but underscores what Trump actually did.
Pompeo had to cancel his European trip because of the disgust and contempt that they held him in and Trump's administration.
He represented America in a such a fundamental way that I can't recall that ever happened to anyone before.
The world stood up because of what they saw but GOP sycophants were too afraid and too cowardly to just do the right thing! That is how absurd the republicans are now!
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
18 hours ago, Beerman said:
Newsom dining at a birthday party in Napa. The mayor of Denver literally begging people to not travel for the holidays, and then he did exactly that. Pelosi getting her hair done when every other salon is ordered closed. Many other examples.
I think there were many failures of leadership.
I think there is leadership and there is leadership by example. I don't accept the idea that you reject the former because a few people failed on the latter.
But then again I make the same argument when we occasionally have a major throwdown here over whether or not part of being a nurse is to set an example in terms of weight, diet, etc.
Certainly I would hope that mature adults would not reject what they otherwise would accept in terms of "best practice" because some people fail to set a good example in their personal lives.
Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand etc etc. Every country that had a mask wearing culture and notice location! All are from the far east! I think that should answer your question.
Other factors include low rates of obesity and pretty much a culture of cooperation with restrictions.
I think a starting point of having very ill health and some the highest rates of obesity, as well as a spirit of mistrust of the government and independence was not a good combination for us especially leading into the 2nd wave when people grew wearing of the restrictions and through caution to the wind. Pretty much our covid unit has a few old people, but mostly morbidly obese persons with diabetes and hypertension. No judgement, just facts.
Other factors include low rates of obesity and pretty much a culture of cooperation with restrictions.
I think a starting point of having very ill health and some the highest rates of obesity, as well as a spirit of mistrust of the government and independence was not a good combination for us especially leading into the 2nd wave when people grew wearing of the restrictions and through caution to the wind. Pretty much our covid unit has a few old people, but mostly morbidly obese persons with diabetes and hypertension. No judgement, just facts.
I think the Fairness Doctrine needs to be modified or enforced strongly against any form of media or 'news organizations' like Fox. They in my opinion along with their entertainers like Ingraham and Hannity etc are to blame for a lot of deaths.
If you yelled fire in a crowded area and people were trampled, are you not going to be prosecuted? Trump and everyone else is equally culpable in this disaster.
I think the Fairness Doctrine needs to be modified or enforced strongly against any form of media or 'news organizations' like Fox. They in my opinion along with their entertainers like Ingraham and Hannity etc are to blame for a lot of deaths.
If you yelled fire in a crowded area and people were trampled, are you not going to be prosecuted? Trump and everyone else is equally culpable in this disaster.
I wonder where personal responsibility and freedom come into play. I had the same information as the anti-maskers and those advocating for the right not to lock down or wear masks and I chose to try not to die regardless of what Fox News or the President was saying.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but we have to factor that in. The issue is that they kill other people. It would be fine with me if they only killed themselves when they got covid.
I wonder where personal responsibility and freedom come into play. I had the same information as the anti-maskers and those advocating for the right not to lock down or wear masks and I chose to try not to die regardless of what Fox News or the President was saying.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but we have to factor that in. The issue is that they kill other people. It would be fine with me if they only killed themselves when they got covid.
I'm with you Tweety, I just don't understand when critical thinking goes out the door. I can only conclude that they are vulnerable, irresponsible people to play with their own lives and their loved ones.
I have never followed anyone in my life and neither has any of my immediate family members, so I can only conclude it must be a familial thing. How you were raised or influenced. I can only sympathize and also be extremely angry at the death toll and the destruction caused by the Republicans.
I unfortunately never reach across the aisle because I fear being burned. I give them all the respect but I never try to convince them otherwise. It appears almost delusional to me this sycophantic almost psychotic overtures they project.
I think the Fairness Doctrine needs to be modified or enforced strongly against any form of media or 'news organizations' like Fox. They in my opinion along with their entertainers like Ingraham and Hannity etc are to blame for a lot of deaths.
If you yelled fire in a crowded area and people were trampled, are you not going to be prosecuted? Trump and everyone else is equally culpable in this disaster.
One of the more ridiculous things I've seen said here.
The 5 worst states for covid death rates all overwhelming voted for Biden. I'm assuming they weren't influenced much by Trump, Hannity, and Ingraham?
One of the more ridiculous things I've seen said here.
The 5 worst states for covid death rates all overwhelming voted for Biden. I'm assuming they weren't influenced much by Trump, Hannity, and Ingraham?
Your assertion without actually even slightly thinking about it, is that the five most populous states, with the largest economies and the largest influx of international business travelers, had the most deaths?
Further, the candidate that isolated, wore masks and repeatedly educated about mask wearing, in the party that advocated almost totally about Covid-19 precautions and safety, won, because they disagreed with President Biden and didn't adhere to precautions? As opposed to the party that ridiculed safety precautions and advised against masks, distancing, quarantining etc?
Now Beerman, do you really want us to take you seriously? I will chalk your statement up to emotional impact and hopefully you will think more clearly in the future.
That is why I pleaded with you to explain your position. I don't think illogically. It's my failing. You obviously feel strongly and you should be entitled to explain why you feel the way you do. Hopefully, you will indulge me when I say, it's very likely that your statement may qualify for the assertion you postulated.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
9 hours ago, Beerman said:
One of the more ridiculous things I've seen said here.
The 5 worst states for covid death rates all overwhelming voted for Biden. I'm assuming they weren't influenced much by Trump, Hannity, and Ingraham?
Is ALL of your understanding about this viral pandemic filtered through your political beliefs and feelings? It appears so when considering your comments.
toomuchbaloney
16,065 Posts
The evidence suggests otherwise. For GOP state leadership this was about political clout in Trumpworld...you and l know that place, where any criticism of Trump was tantamount to political insurrection against the party leader resulting in a more extreme challenger in the next primary and no party funding.
Yeah...we can hold those governors accountable for their own ignorant policy but it would be a mistake to ignore why they behaved in such a Trumpian manner. Trump was the ringleader of rebellion against mitigation.