After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.
I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.
Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.
However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!
I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.
I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.
So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.
If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!
I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.
I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.
So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.
If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....
So what say you, oh wise nurses?
Nurses really don't eat their young, although someone made a boatload of money terrifying students that they were going to be "eaten". But this doesn't really have anything to do with the meat of your post, it does illustrate that you have expectations of having negative experiences on the unit.
Nurses are people, too. We see frequent threads here from students or new grads who seem to have missed that memo. Nurses are people. There are good ones and bad ones, nice ones and nasty ones, loud ones and quiet ones. Nurses are people.
PEOPLE get frustrated with other people. Experienced nurses get frustrated with new nurslings who judge without knowing of what they speak. Experienced nurses get frustrated with other experienced nurses who have different priorities or a different work ethic than themselves. Nurses get frustrated with patients who are rude, demanding, wimpy, nasty, or otherwise difficult to deal with. Nurses get frustrated with visitors who are rude, demanding, whiny, nasty or otherwise difficult to deal with. And nurses, like other people, complain about people with whom they are frustrated.
The unprofessional part of the behavior you describe is the use of vulgar language and the proximity to a patient care area. But I seriously doubt there are very many of us here who have never complained to their colleagues or vented about a patient, physician or visitor who was rude, whiney, demanding, self-centered or otherwise unpleasant. Most of us vent in the break room, the locker room or the med room. Sometimes on the elevator at night when no one else is on the elevator and once in awhile in the cafeteria where we use nicknames. Nurses even give truly nightmarish patients or families unprofessional nicknames that we use when describing or complaining about said nighmarish folk. This is because nurses are people, too. Most of these nicknames, while unprofessional, are not vulgar but I'll admit to a few vulgar names that got through.
The thing is, you don't know what went on between that patient and that nurse before you heard the discussion between nurses. If the patient had gotten handsy despite being educated about appropriate boundaries, you might hear the nurse venting about it to a colleague using inappropriate language -- blowing off a little steam with her colleague so she wouldn't be unprofessional TO the patient. And if the family had witnessed a patient's totally inappropriate behavior toward a nurse, perhaps they would understand somewhat if they then heard the nurse ventilating to a colleague. (I certainly did when it was my family member they were talking about. I was approaching the nurse's station to apologize for the behavior, and I certainly understood the ventilating.)
Asking your instructor was the right thing to do. Approaching the nurse would have been very inappropriate. You're a guest in their workplace. It isn't for you to judge. Venting and expressing frustration about difficult patients, physicians, colleagues, visitors -- that's as normal in nursing as it is in sales, teaching, customer service, banking, law enforcement -- everywhere that people work.
When you graduate and become a nurse, you are free to behave in the manner that seems most appropriate and professional to you. But please don't judge until you've been a nurse for a couple of years.
You can be nice,sweet,kind, and professional and guess what?
Patients and families won't appreciate it and will disrespect you.
I notice they respect the nurses who do cuss and talk about them in a negative way.
I doubt somehow that the nurse has just commanded their respect by trashing them. Most likely they won't say anything to the nurse; they have bigger battles to fight trying to get their family member (the patient) through their hospitalization safely, and they will continue to act as though nothing has happened, but will plan on contacting administration or filing a complaint.
That is what you need to start wrapping your brain around---you can't control how other people act, so just focus on being the best nurse YOU can be and tune out the others. Don't let them affect you to the point you're wringing your hands about it---it's that naievete that I think we're telling you to get over.
And I totally understand that. I am aware that I need to work on getting thicker skin. In school we had to do personality tests to see what "color" we were. It was no surprise to me that I'm a "blue"....which are the tender hearted yet stubborn types. It's a dichotomy lol. I'll fight to the death for something I believe in....but my feelings are hurt easily. I don't have trouble with mean patients....but mean peers being mean to me would be something I would struggle with. High school PTSD maybe lol. Either way, I do recognize that I need to get some thicker skin and I appreciate all of the advice! I promise I'm working on it!
Also, I didn't clutch my pearls over the comments - more just trying to get ready for the 'real world of nursing' and I read the situation as wildly inappropriate and I guess I was just trying to determine if I was right...or whether I needed that thicker skin I just spoke of. What I'm finding out is that the answer to both questions is YES!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I understand how you feel OP. When I was in nursing school over 10 years ago I posted a thread very similar to yours. Back then I was under the user name "nursing student 19" ( just in case you're interested in the thread ) .
Anyway , I had the same responses from all nurses. Every nurse on this site ( specifically rubyv and green tea) berated me and callled me judgemental and they all said "come talk to me when you actually have some experience". Or they would say "walk a mile in my shoes".
Well guess what?! Ive been a nurse going on 10 years now, and have walked many miles in their shoes and I still feel the same way as I did 10 years ago. Many bedside nurses are rude, nasty, disrespectful, and mean to their patients, coworkers, and peers. I've seen it and witnessed it . It is not right and I have chosen not to participate in it. I have also reported some nurses in some cases.
My advice to you is to be yourself. Pick and choose your battles. To answer your question, yes this is the norm.
Interesting that you've encountered so many mean, disrespectful, nasty and rude nurses in your career. I feel bad for you that you've had such negative experiences. But then I went back and read your "Compassion . . . why is it so hard to give some?" thread and I begin to understand.
I'm sorry you're still so angry, after nine years, that you feel the need to call me out to accuse me of berating you. Perhaps if you reread the thread with a more mature eye, you would see that most of the posters in that thread, me included, were attempting to share with a student how she might have misinterpreted the events she described or how the patients may deliberately have misled her. Perhaps you have learned after all your years of nursing that it's best not to make judgements until you've heard more than one side of a story, especially when the one side you've heard is that of a patient who may be confused, sleep deprived, hypoxic or under the influence of narcotics or sleep meds.
Or perhaps you just have an inexhaustable supply of compassion for patients and very little for your fellow nurses.
I was in a very similar situation to yours. 3rd degree, older student, experience with the "real world", mental health and psych. I worked as a tech on a trauma unit, and one day saw a question posted on the white board in the break room - don't remember what it was, but the comment was something like, "Gunshot patients are the whiniest bunch of pu**ies ever!"
I was APPALLED! Was this the attitude of the nurses I would be working with? I thought nurses were supposed to be so compassionate, caring, healers, trying to alleviate pain...that's what I wanted to do, right? It made me sick.
Fast forward 5 years. I can tell you that gunshot patients are some of the most obnoxious, whiney, needy, people you will ever encounter - and it has NOTHING to do with the actual pain they are in. I won't go into the psych or family dynamics of this, but I can promise you one thing - once you have a couple of years of experience under your belt, you will see this encounter much, much differently. And feel a little silly for being so offended by it. As I am for my reaction at the time.
With experience, comes a much different, and well rounded perspective.
When you graduate and become a nurse, you are free to behave in the manner that seems most appropriate and professional to you. But please don't judge until you've been a nurse for a couple of years.
I've tried to explain that I don't think I was being judgmental as much as I was looking to see if this was the norm in how nurses feel. I WAS really surprised at the comments, not because I am a new nursing student, but because I have been a patient and I cannot imagine how I would have felt if I heard these comments. For the most part, I think the comments themselves were unprofessional because she went on for 5 plus minutes about why she was calling him a p*ssy. And it had nothing to do with anything other than she thought he should have been discharged already and the doctor didn't agree. I wasn't judging....I was witness to the entire 'complaint'. As was the entire nursing desk. Like I said if it had been in the break room, that's one thing. I was stunned by the loudness, location and vulgarity used next to the waiting room.
I don't think I need to be a nurse for 50 years to recognize that is not the best situation.
As far as nurses eating their young....No, I don't think that nor do I expect a bad experience on the floor. I've had great experiences in my clinicals with wonderful helpful nurses FOR THE MOST PART. However, while I am a new poster under this name, I've been reading for years. I was even a poster on All Nurses years ago as I contemplated going back then. I did not have a good experience and there were definitely some nurses who were downright cruel to me. I'm not saying that many or even most nurses eat their young - but I will say that term came from somewhere. It may not be the majority but I bet you can't find a nurse that doesn't know a nurse that fits that description. And yes, it makes us students extra cautious and extra helpful on the units we walk onto....so maybe that fear isn't a bad thing!
The behavior you described in your post made me think the guilty parties might be suffering from compassion fatigue. A pervasive negative attitude can be one of the manifestations of compassion fatigue, or secondary traumatic stress (STS), which I think far too many overworked career nurses suffer from without realizing it.
Of course, this does not excuse unprofessional or inappropriate behavior, but considering this possiblity may open up a new way of looking at the situation.
You can be nice,sweet,kind, and professional and guess what?
Patients and families won't appreciate it and will disrespect you.
I notice they respect the nurses who do cuss and talk about them in a negative way.
I as a patient do not respect nurses who cuss and talk about me or another patient in a negative way or talk about each other in a negative way, which I have the personal experience of watching two nurses running down another nurse. Their conversation was so important that they were being unprofessional in their care of the patient. I respect nurses who treat me with a professional but kind manner. Who understands that the patient they have in front of them is a human being and may be scared and confused or worried about the outcome of their visit to a doctor's office or stay in a hospital. I have always appreciated the kind, professional, competent nurse over one that will run in and act like they can threaten and make me feel as if they can do and say anything they want to me or a member of my family. Been there done that and not planning on going back. As a matter of fact I have never disrespected a nurse until he/she disrespects me or a member of my family.
once you have a couple of years of experience under your belt, you will see this encounter much, much differently. And feel a little silly for being so offended by it. As I am for my reaction at the time.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I certainly hope I don't feel any differently later on. I don't expect to because I'm not 20. I've been around a few blocks. But, if I do, it's time to go into a different aspect of nursing. I am sure I will vent and complain because I'm human, but I will do so in private and not where other nurses and patients are subject to my misery.
In fact, my mother shared with me what made her quit after 50 years....and it was one day when she under her breathe called a patient an ******* as she walked out of the room. She realized that her demeanor wasn't fit for nursing anymore because she had had it. I think a lot of people stay because they need the money or they've put a lot into their career, but not because they like it anymore. I told my mother the story, and in 50 years of nursing and as a nurse manager and supervisor - no way was this normal or expected at least not on her units.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
Nurses really don't eat their young, although someone made a boatload of money terrifying students that they were going to be "eaten". But this doesn't really have anything to do with the meat of your post, it does illustrate that you have expectations of having negative experiences on the unit.
Nurses are people, too. We see frequent threads here from students or new grads who seem to have missed that memo. Nurses are people. There are good ones and bad ones, nice ones and nasty ones, loud ones and quiet ones. Nurses are people.
PEOPLE get frustrated with other people. Experienced nurses get frustrated with new nurslings who judge without knowing of what they speak. Experienced nurses get frustrated with other experienced nurses who have different priorities or a different work ethic than themselves. Nurses get frustrated with patients who are rude, demanding, wimpy, nasty, or otherwise difficult to deal with. Nurses get frustrated with visitors who are rude, demanding, whiny, nasty or otherwise difficult to deal with. And nurses, like other people, complain about people with whom they are frustrated.
The unprofessional part of the behavior you describe is the use of vulgar language and the proximity to a patient care area. But I seriously doubt there are very many of us here who have never complained to their colleagues or vented about a patient, physician or visitor who was rude, whiney, demanding, self-centered or otherwise unpleasant. Most of us vent in the break room, the locker room or the med room. Sometimes on the elevator at night when no one else is on the elevator and once in awhile in the cafeteria where we use nicknames. Nurses even give truly nightmarish patients or families unprofessional nicknames that we use when describing or complaining about said nighmarish folk. This is because nurses are people, too. Most of these nicknames, while unprofessional, are not vulgar but I'll admit to a few vulgar names that got through.
The thing is, you don't know what went on between that patient and that nurse before you heard the discussion between nurses. If the patient had gotten handsy despite being educated about appropriate boundaries, you might hear the nurse venting about it to a colleague using inappropriate language -- blowing off a little steam with her colleague so she wouldn't be unprofessional TO the patient. And if the family had witnessed a patient's totally inappropriate behavior toward a nurse, perhaps they would understand somewhat if they then heard the nurse ventilating to a colleague. (I certainly did when it was my family member they were talking about. I was approaching the nurse's station to apologize for the behavior, and I certainly understood the ventilating.)
Asking your instructor was the right thing to do. Approaching the nurse would have been very inappropriate. You're a guest in their workplace. It isn't for you to judge. Venting and expressing frustration about difficult patients, physicians, colleagues, visitors -- that's as normal in nursing as it is in sales, teaching, customer service, banking, law enforcement -- everywhere that people work.
When you graduate and become a nurse, you are free to behave in the manner that seems most appropriate and professional to you. But please don't judge until you've been a nurse for a couple of years.