Older Student, Unprofessional Nurse During Clinical

[Nurse Magnolia]

After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.

I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.

Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.

However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!

I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.

I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.

So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.

If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....

So what say you, oh wise nurses?

[BSNbeauty, BSN, RN]

Yes, this did help. Thank you for your advice!

You're most welcome !

[Nurse Magnolia, BSN, RN]

I think it is great you recognized that this is unacceptable. Is it the norm? I would say no, not where I have worked. That isn't to say we have not done our share of grousing about certain patients, but definitely not out in the open and certainly not using derisive words like "wuss". Challenging, anxious, difficult, reactive, hostile....those are the kinds of describers I have found.

Keep working hard and recognize that what you hear and see is going to shape you as a nurse. You never have to be like that one.

Thank you so much. It's interesting because in post conference when I brought this up...without naming the nurse....my instructor knew immediately which nurse it was.

I am no newbie to venting....OR swearing! I have four kids afterall, lol :) But I do think other language could have been used in a different location. Had this been in the break room, I'd have thought it harsh, but not unprofessional necessarily. I think my biggest issue was that she was sitting at the nurses desk in the center of the floor and was definitely not talking quietly Patients were walking the halls as were families.

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

I am definitely seeing from the responses that this IS the norm and I have to say I'm disappointed. Apparently I was pretty naïve.

However, it won't change a thing for how I will behave. I'm not saying that I won't ever talk about a patient. I will say that I won't call a patient a ****** ***** because they are in pain and then make fun of their military service. And I won't talk about them when the family is 15 feet away. But other than that, I am certainly not saying I am better than anyone. I wanted to know if it was normal and apparently, the answer is yes. In 6 months in clinical experiences, this is the first time I heard a nurse talk like this, so I was surprised. That's all.

No, it's not the norm. And no, it's not right. I think that sometimes when students come here and criticize practicing nurses on a variety of issues, there are numerous responses related to "wait until you're a nurse and then see what you do when.....", but you're right, there is no reason for that to happen.

You said you have years of experience in the professional environment. Certainly you must have had coworkers that were petty and small minded. Well, now you're going to work with some nurses that are petty and small minded, different field, same personalities. You don't have to be one of them, just as you weren't in your previous professional experiences. I'm sorry that you're disappointed because of this experience, but I know you've been around long enough to know people are just people. I hear plenty of that from other nurses and to be honest, I don't bother to get involved with those conversations because calling someone out is only going to cause ill will, it's not going to change how they are and they will still do it. Don't be discouraged, it doesn't happen everywhere, and you'll quickly find the people you want to avoid because they don't act in a manner you agree with.

[Nurse Magnolia, BSN, RN]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I'm happy to know that this is not the case everywhere. As I mentioned above, when I brought this up in post conference without naming the nurse, my instructor knew immediately which nurse it was.

I do not expect to get through my career without venting about a patient or their family. I haven't even gotten through nursing school without venting about instructors or other students. I am SO not blameless in the venting or swearing game. But I maintain, regardless of whether I'm a student or not, that the words and location were not professional. Had this been in the break room, fine. I'd have still thought it harsh perhaps, but not necessarily unprofessional.

The words and location....right at the nurses desk in the center of the floor with patients and families walking the halls....It just didn't sit right. I am very glad to know that there are others who, even after years of experience, would still find this level of venting unacceptable at the nurses desk.

As far as me being "just a student", I get it. I'm 45 in my classes with 20-somethings and sometimes they say something about not having time or something like that and I'm thinking "yeah, right....try having 4 kids and a husband!", but then I try to remember that we are all walking our own path so for them, the strain on their time is very real - as it is to me. I don't want to compete for misery.

The same goes for me being a student. I was a mental health and suicide prevention instructor before this - and frankly my entire profession revolved around compassion and respect for the whole person. So I bring that perspective to nursing - that while I'm also just human - so is the patient and while it's a work day (or school day) for us, for them it might be the worst day of their life. I am not perfect by a long shot. I throw down the f bomb more than I should and I get frustrated like anyone else. But even just as a student, I hope that I can still bring compassion into my care since I can't bring a whole lot else yet! I understand that some of you are rolling your eyes at me right now and that's ok. I will return in 10 years and let you know if my ideas have changed. I hope they have not. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and after she retired she still had patients sending her Christmas cards (she worked in long term rehab with post trauma patients who spent months there) and a few even called her sometimes. While boundaries in nursing are different now and I don't expect (or want!) phone calls or cards, I do hope that I can continue my mom's legacy of being remembered as a compassionate nurse, regardless of the day. That may be naive, but it's a goal I'm working towards, even just as a student.

Thanks all for listening and for your excellent advice.

[JerryDdot]

I'm 44 and just about to take NCLEX today. It's possibly the era we grew up in, with the manners we were taught. I found the same thing in clinicals, much to my dismay. I was shocked, appaled, and bewildered at the things I heard come from the mouths of supposedly caring compassionate nurses. I felt like I was on recess in Jr. High. anyway, we have a mission to also be an example and not let this affect us too much. You are not alone in this!

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

It's interesting because in post conference when I brought this up...without naming the nurse....my instructor knew immediately which nurse it was.

Sorry, I'm late to the party. This illustrates the point I was thinking about...it definitely is the norm for some (a vast minority) of nurses. I have worked with nurses who regularly talk **** on their patients and families. When they get going, I would usually roll my eyes and/or walk away. If they want to act like this, their problem--and their annual reviews reflect it. Again, this is the minority of nurses, and it definitely not the norm across the profession.

[Nurseinprocess]

If you are being a nutty, unreasonable, horrible patient you may find me talking about you to my colleagues. I am not one to use foul or inappropriate language, though. I only work with maybe one or two people who use unprofessional language when discussing patients. We all talk about the crazy stuff our patients put us through, but most don't swear while doing it. And we don't do it at the nurses station we do it in our work room which has a closed door.

[AlabamaBelle]

The break room or the med room would be the most appropriate place to vent if you are going to use profanity. I worked with one nurse who had to be repeatedly counseled for her inappropriate language (f-bombs were her favorite), but other expressions could be equally offensive. This was in a Peds ICU. I've worked with a great nurse with the worst potty mouth ever and did not possess an inside voice.

As the OP, she realized she was guest on the unit and did act appropriately. Nothing will destroy a relationship between school and unit like a "tattle tell." Or a know it all student. I've see both, neither was a pretty sight to behold.

I was in nursing school at 45, with a mix of ages. My upbringing and personal convictions were/are no cursing. It's my choice. I did utter a bad word during my chemical stress test and was appalled. People who have worked with me in the past and to this day know I don't curse and I don't raise my voice. The one time I raised my voice scared the pants off my coworkers. I yelled the name of the last nurse I saw (patient's BP was tanking and I'm cranking up the dopamine). He heard me, along with the Assistant Nurse Manager. I had worked with them for years and it was the first time they'd heard my voice raised. "She doesn't yell....must be bad!"

Do I engage in comments about patients? Yes, but only in a safe space. And if you're in nursing any length of time you will, too. You'll have frequent flyers, noncompliant patients, whiners, swindlers, etc. You will do your best for a patient/family only to find out that they complained about you. They will curse at you, throw things and threaten.

Honestly, we have spent more time discussing some doctors in not so great fashion......

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Specifically calling out individual posters is neither productive nor kind. Her post would have been just fine without it. So, yes, I find it mean.

Holding a 10 year grudge is like feeding poison to yourself and expecting the other person to get sick.

Agree, calling out posters by name 10 years later was unnecessary and really not relevant to the point she was making.

[LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I'm happy to know that this is not the case everywhere. As I mentioned above, when I brought this up in post conference without naming the nurse, my instructor knew immediately which nurse it was.

I do not expect to get through my career without venting about a patient or their family. I haven't even gotten through nursing school without venting about instructors or other students. I am SO not blameless in the venting or swearing game. But I maintain, regardless of whether I'm a student or not, that the words and location were not professional. Had this been in the break room, fine. I'd have still thought it harsh perhaps, but not necessarily unprofessional.

The words and location....right at the nurses desk in the center of the floor with patients and families walking the halls....It just didn't sit right. I am very glad to know that there are others who, even after years of experience, would still find this level of venting unacceptable at the nurses desk.

As far as me being "just a student", I get it. I'm 45 in my classes with 20-somethings and sometimes they say something about not having time or something like that and I'm thinking "yeah, right....try having 4 kids and a husband!", but then I try to remember that we are all walking our own path so for them, the strain on their time is very real - as it is to me. I don't want to compete for misery.

The same goes for me being a student. I was a mental health and suicide prevention instructor before this - and frankly my entire profession revolved around compassion and respect for the whole person. So I bring that perspective to nursing - that while I'm also just human - so is the patient and while it's a work day (or school day) for us, for them it might be the worst day of their life. I am not perfect by a long shot. I throw down the f bomb more than I should and I get frustrated like anyone else. But even just as a student, I hope that I can still bring compassion into my care since I can't bring a whole lot else yet! I understand that some of you are rolling your eyes at me right now and that's ok. I will return in 10 years and let you know if my ideas have changed. I hope they have not. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and after she retired she still had patients sending her Christmas cards (she worked in long term rehab with post trauma patients who spent months there) and a few even called her sometimes. While boundaries in nursing are different now and I don't expect (or want!) phone calls or cards, I do hope that I can continue my mom's legacy of being remembered as a compassionate nurse, regardless of the day. That may be naive, but it's a goal I'm working towards, even just as a student.

Thanks all for listening and for your excellent advice.

From your posts you sound like a very dedicated, caring student. I think you have good perspective on the kind of nurse you'd like to be, and I applaud that. I think the central thesis of most of the other posts is that you'll have to develop a thicker skin in nursing in order to accept the fact that other people aren't going to practice the same way you will. Some nurses are unprofessional, nasty people. The same goes for doctors, lawyers, teachers, bankers, farmers, and auto mechanics. That is what you need to start wrapping your brain around---you can't control how other people act, so just focus on being the best nurse YOU can be and tune out the others. Don't let them affect you to the point you're wringing your hands about it---it's that naievete that I think we're telling you to get over.

[Have Nurse, ADN, RN]

It can be a rude awakening to overhear things that shouldn't be overheard, particularly by those in shared professions.

You have a good head on your shoulders and the fact that those words bothered you shows you are sensitive to what is and is not appropriate. Good for you!

Yes, it is fine to let your instructor know. Nothing wrong with that, as it tells her/him that you are aware of what is appropriate. My concern is if there was HIPAA involved, because that is something that does need to be reported.

But keep focusing on your own mission and your own preparation. And when the time comes, and you are getting burned out, frustrated or overwhelmed, that you remember this experience you shared because it can happen to you too.

[Have Nurse, ADN, RN]

From your posts you sound like a very dedicated, caring student. I think you have good perspective on the kind of nurse you'd like to be, and I applaud that. I think the central thesis of most of the other posts is that you'll have to develop a thicker skin in nursing in order to accept the fact that other people aren't going to practice the same way you will. Some nurses are unprofessional, nasty people. The same goes for doctors, lawyers, teachers, bankers, farmers, and auto mechanics. That is what you need to start wrapping your brain around---you can't control how other people act, so just focus on being the best nurse YOU can be and tune out the others. Don't let them affect you to the point you're wringing your hands about it---it's that naievete that I think we're telling you to get over.

Agreed.