After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.
I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.
Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.
However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!
I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.
I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.
So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.
If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....
Health care providers of all stripes are often less than professional when they step away from the bedside. There is a line, though- and making fun of a patient for things outside of their control is DEFINITELY beyond that line. So is being racist, classist, sexist, or just overall being a jerk.
There is a right and a wrong way to be unprofessional amongst your colleagues. Appropriate unprofessional-ism can be important in a high pressure job like health care. I don't think the conversation, as described by the OP, was appropriate. There might be a different perspective here that we aren't getting, but I have no reason to disbelieve the OP. You were right to keep quiet as a student, but the other nurse should have spoken up.
And regardless, unprofessional shop talk should ALWAYS ALWAYS occur in private jeez louise!
Oh dear, here we go again. Nursing isn't daisies and sunshine. I wish it were. Recently, a secretary I work with tried to go to HR because she didn't like that we were talking about calling DSS on a family... she said she felt like the patients were her own... because she sees their names on a computer program? Do everyone a favor and just don't participate in the conversation if you're uncomfortable. You're an adult, don't go reporting people, they will strongly dislike you. That's s good way to make everyone hate you as a new grad. I've been in the work force for 7 years and I figured that out years ago...
And I totally understand that. I am aware that I need to work on getting thicker skin. In school we had to do personality tests to see what "color" we were. It was no surprise to me that I'm a "blue"....which are the tender hearted yet stubborn types. It's a dichotomy lol. I'll fight to the death for something I believe in....but my feelings are hurt easily. I don't have trouble with mean patients....but mean peers being mean to me would be something I would struggle with. High school PTSD maybe lol. Either way, I do recognize that I need to get some thicker skin and I appreciate all of the advice! I promise I'm working on it!
Also, I didn't clutch my pearls over the comments - more just trying to get ready for the 'real world of nursing' and I read the situation as wildly inappropriate and I guess I was just trying to determine if I was right...or whether I needed that thicker skin I just spoke of. What I'm finding out is that the answer to both questions is YES!
I have a similar personality, which is why I posted. I didn't mean to insinuate you were pearl-clutching over the language itself, but more over the idea that nurses could be anything but angelic martyrs to their patients. Nurses are human, just like anybody else, and that's OK. You don't need to waste energy on those lousy ones (even though I completely agree that the situation, as described, was totally inappropriate).
Oh my. You are a student. A student who has zero experience. Come back after a few years of experience and tell us you have never spoke about a patient.
how does that justify a nurse talking about a patient. what does around comes around.
Yes, you will experience nurses saying all kinds of things about their patients. It surprised me too (I'm a new nurse, age 52). And I agree with you, I choose not to behave this way at work. Do I let off steam when I get home? Yes, my boyfriend or a friend from nursing school will listen to me vent about certain staff or patients. Something else you ought to prepare yourself for as a nurse because I didn't expect this either: some patients are over-the-top demanding, needy, or just plain challenging. Sure, that's no problem if we only had 1-2 patients but when you have 5 it can be very frustrating and draining.
Do everyone a favor and just don't participate in the conversation if you're uncomfortable. You're an adult, don't go reporting people, they will strongly dislike you. That's s good way to make everyone hate you as a new grad. I've been in the work force for 7 years and I figured that out years ago...
Hmmmm....Ok. I'll take this advice and file it with the rest, however if people "strongly dislike me" because I don't want to be subjected to their misery, name calling and general meanness about the patients, then so be it I guess. I won't participate in conversations that I'm uncomfortable with, and as I've stated a number of times now, if it's in the break room etc....So be it. I can walk away from there. But if these conversations are happening at the nurses desk while I'm trying to do my work - well then, I can't promise I will not say something. Why should I be subjected to that? Nor would I want to be guilty by association if that nurse is overheard. I'm going into nursing to take care of patients. I expect to also make friends as I usually do that pretty easily. I'm a pretty easy going person generally and I am nice to everyone. I've never reported anyone at any job ever. But I'm 45. The days of me being afraid of hurting someone's fragile ego by accurately pointing out their boorish unprofessional behavior are long gone. And I've got A LOT more than 7 years in the workforce.
We want to be taken seriously as a profession and yet we are defending this type of behavior? Call me naive....that's ok. But I don't see the profession gaining the respect desired if nurses are regularly defending behavior like this.
But, thank you for your perspective. It's good to know that I will be interacting on the floor with nurses who find nothing wrong with this. I do need to be prepared.
Hmmmm....Ok. I'll take this advice and file it with the rest, however if people "strongly dislike me" because I don't want to be subjected to their misery, name calling and general meanness about the patients, then so be it I guess. I won't participate in conversations that I'm uncomfortable with, and as I've stated a number of times now, if it's in the break room etc....So be it. I can walk away from there. But if these conversations are happening at the nurses desk while I'm trying to do my work - well then, I can't promise I will not say something. Why should I be subjected to that? Nor would I want to be guilty by association if that nurse is overheard. I'm going into nursing to take care of patients. I expect to also make friends as I usually do that pretty easily. I'm a pretty easy going person generally and I am nice to everyone. I've never reported anyone at any job ever. But I'm 45. The days of me being afraid of hurting someone's fragile ego by accurately pointing out their boorish unprofessional behavior are long gone. And I've got A LOT more than 7 years in the workforce.
We want to be taken seriously as a profession and yet we are defending this type of behavior? Call me naive....that's ok. But I don't see the profession gaining the respect desired if nurses are regularly defending behavior like this.
But, thank you for your perspective. It's good to know that I will be interacting on the floor with nurses who find nothing wrong with this. I do need to be prepared.
I actually don't think it's bad for units to every now and then get an infusion of your type of determination to do the right thing. It can be contagious, and it can put quite a damper on the type of person of whom you speak - the one others have unfortunately come to tolerate over time (by the way, that tolerance is probably quite unenthusiastic in the majority of instances). People who come on the scene and are pleasant and professional can kind of shake things up a bit, in a good way.
I was with you right up to the sentence I bolded. You won't have to worry about that; no large-scale respect will be forthcoming to properly-professional bedside nurses anytime soon, whether people posting on a message board defend others' bad behavior or not - which is part of the larger problem I mentioned previously. I really do think it would be wise to work that into your understanding what the bedside scene will be. The lack of respect (and sometimes common human decency) afforded to bedside nurses is not likely related to the fact that there are outliers who use nasty language. That's why those of us who would never dream of acting that way and who do take pride in our professional demeanor still find ourselves being nit-picked to death, timed on multiple different tasks at once, talked to like 5-year-olds, lied to, and generally blamed for a multiude of issues over which we have no control.
In the end what will come to matter is knowing that you did your best providing excellent care to people, and maintaining a professional demeanor you can personally be proud of. You will sleep well at night. :)
After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.
I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.
Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.
However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!
I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.
I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.
So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.
If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....
So what say you, oh wise nurses?
Norm? depends on what and how often. Have I heard this kind of talk? Yes, have I engaged in it? Yes, but as these nurses did, away from patient and family ears. Yes you will need to toughen up and develop a thicker skin, not just for this, but for the patients and the family members who tell you you don't know what the hell you're doing, or that you're a rotten nurse because you didn't remember the patient likes water without ice, and you brought icewater; and you have to remain "appropriate" You will get tired of whiny patients, demanding families, co-workers that leave you with a train-wreck and run out the door on time, etc etc etc. Maybe you''ll remember this, and when you are on the floor as a team member, you can speak a soft word of correction, but now is not the time. I hope your instructor took this and made it into a discussion, not just of appropriate behavior and attitudes, but of the mental and emotional hurricane you can find yourself in, and again, you must remain "appropriate" at least in front of the patients and family, and management too. But I doubt he or she did, because that would be an exceptional instructor, and it's not in the lesson plan. But you will need to find a way to relieve the pressure and stress, or it will eat you inside out. Start thinking about that now.
I'm sorry but I feel your intentions were less than honorable. The fact that you asked, "is this the norm?" leads me to believe you are fully aware it's not and trying to justify passing judgment on the nurse who was venting. We all have those patients who take it too the next level. We are well aware that what she was saying was not professional. As you grow in this field you'll have your moments too. *we will sit here patiently waiting for that day* :-)
I am currently a nursing student finishing up my last month of clinical and I came across an almost identical situation. I mentioned my experience to my instructor and she replied with, "well, that's how it is" and she continued to make fun of the patient with the fellow nurses on the floor. I know I am here to observe and not pass judgment. I know that nurses are human. However, I will say that this instance was disheartening
I'm sorry but I feel your intentions were less than honorable. The fact that you asked, "is this the norm?" leads me to believe you are fully aware it's not and trying to justify passing judgment on the nurse who was venting. We all have those patients who take it too the next level. We are well aware that what she was saying was not professional. As you grow in this field you'll have your moments too. *we will sit here patiently waiting for that day* :-)
Well, snark aside, I will say that according to the answers to this post, clearly not everyone agrees it was unprofessional. And yes, my question was sincere.
Everyone is VERY quick to point out that I'm "just a student" so I don't understand the way the floor works and then at the same time call my question disingenuous because of course, I should have known the answer to this question. Can't have it both ways. *I* thought it was wildly inappropriate, but since I *am* 'Just a student' I was unsure if this is just 'the way it is'. According to this post, on some floor, that answer is yes, sometimes - and among other nurses, absolutely not. So I do not think the question was foolish and it certainly wasn't disingenuous.
cayenne06, MSN, CNM
1,394 Posts
Health care providers of all stripes are often less than professional when they step away from the bedside. There is a line, though- and making fun of a patient for things outside of their control is DEFINITELY beyond that line. So is being racist, classist, sexist, or just overall being a jerk.
There is a right and a wrong way to be unprofessional amongst your colleagues. Appropriate unprofessional-ism can be important in a high pressure job like health care. I don't think the conversation, as described by the OP, was appropriate. There might be a different perspective here that we aren't getting, but I have no reason to disbelieve the OP. You were right to keep quiet as a student, but the other nurse should have spoken up.
And regardless, unprofessional shop talk should ALWAYS ALWAYS occur in private jeez louise!