BSN's deliver safer care than ADN's??

Nurses Activism

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Now, I am all for further education, but I think this study is skewed. I truly don't see how they have come to the conclusion that taking more courses in the humanities and other such non-nursing related courses is going to produce a more competent bedside nurse. The core nursing cirriculum for most ADN and BSN programs is quite similar in my experience. I can see where the BSN nurse may have it over the ADN in managerial type roles, but as a bedside nurse? I think lots more studies need to be done before this quick conclusion is drawn. One factor that may affect nursing in this negative way is the poor economy. Maybe it is that some people are going into nursing just because it will almost guarantee them employment and don't really want to be in nursing and therefore are not as dedicated as nurses? These people may not want to go for the BSN. I don't know...that is just something I am throwing out there because this makes no sense to me. I don't want to start the old BSN vs. ADN war, but this is news and I was wondering, what do you all think?

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030923-050052-9024r

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- The ongoing nursing shortage in the United States has forced some hospitals to rely on nurses with less than a college education as they scramble to fill vacancies but new research suggests the practice can yield deadly consequences for patients.

The study, the first of its kind, reveals patients undergoing surgeries at hospitals where a greater proportion of nurses have obtained a bachelor's or higher degree experienced a lower rate of death than patients at hospitals where most nurses had only associate degrees.

Such findings have implications not only for patients but also for how nursing schools, hospitals and even the U.S. Congress should address the nursing shortage, Linda Aiken, a nurse and lead investigator of the study, told United Press International.

These institutions have made efforts to address the nursing shortage by facilitating the rapid training of nurses via associate degree programs, but the study indicates in the long-run the strategy might be worse for both patients and hospitals, said Aiken, who is director of the center for health outcomes and policy research at the University of Pennsylvania's School of Nursing in Philadelphia.

It underscores the need to find ways to increase the numbers of nurses graduating from bachelor degree programs, she said, noting some hospitals studied did not employ a single nurse with a bachelor's or higher degree.

In the study, which is published in the Sept. 24 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, Aiken's team examined patient data from 168 Pennsylvania hospitals over a 19-month period beginning in 1998. They found, all other factors being equal, hospitals where 60 percent of the nurses held a bachelor's degree or higher had a 19-percent lower rate of surgical patients dying within 30 days of admission or dying from complications than hospitals where only 20 percent of nurses had higher degrees.

The authors estimate if all the hospitals in the study could meet the 60-percent, bachelor's-degree-or-higher threshold, 725 patient deaths could have been prevented over the study period.

The differences in patient mortality rates "are stunning and should make people very concerned," Geraldine Bednash, a registered nurse and executive director of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, told UPI. "One of the first questions (patients) ought to ask people in a hospital is what is the proportion of their nurses with bachelor's degrees, and if it's not 60 percent or higher, I'd be very concerned about going into that hospital," Bednash said.

The higher rate of patient deaths associated with lower education level is compounded by the fact that "all of the federal government's projections about the nursing shortage over the past decade have not only projected a shortage of nurses but a severe shortage of baccalaureate degreed nurses," Aiken said. At present, less than half of all hospital staff nurses across the nation hold bachelor's degrees or higher.

"Policymakers seem to think we just need to get nurses out fast," but that is not good for hospitals or patients, Bednash said, suggesting legislators should focus on developing ways to produce more nurses with bachelor degrees because "it makes a difference in people's care and whether or not they live or die."

President George W. Bush signed the Nurse Reinvestment Act into law in 2002 in an effort to remedy the nursing shortage and Congress will likely authorize no more than $163 million for fiscal year 2004. But this falls far short of the $250 million the American Association of Colleges of Nursing estimated would be needed to address the problem.

"To date, we've had mostly a symbolic response from Congress," Aiken said, noting the money the legislative body has appropriated is "not a sufficient amount to close the nursing shortage."

Hospitals also have a role to play in addressing the problem, however, Aiken continued. They should "subsidize continued education to the nurses because there is a return to the hospital in terms of greater productivity and better patient outcomes," she said. But many hospitals do not seem to recognize the value of more education in their nurse because many have discontinued tuition reimbursement programs to help their nurses obtain bachelor's or advanced degrees, she said.

Aiken also noted the study found nursing experience was not associated with lower mortality rates of patients. "It's the educational level that's important and experience alone cannot achieve the same level of benefit for the patient as education plus experience," she said.

Joan Hrubetz, dean of the school of nursing at Saint Louis University, said as medical treatments become even more sophisticated, hospitals "will need nurses with advanced education to be able to deal with the kinds of treatments and diagnostics" that likely would be developed in the era of genetics and molecular-based medicine. "I don't think there's any question we need better trained nurses," Hrubetz told UPI.

Nevertheless, hospitals appear to be reluctant to make any changes based on this single study.

"Hospitals are very interested in studies such as this ... but it really needs to have further studies done because this really only represents one state," Rita Turley, president of the American Organization of Nurse Executives -- a subsidiary of the American Hospital Association -- told UPI.

The good news is although enrollment rates in baccalaureate nursing programs had been down over the past decade, they now appear to be on the rise. In addition, many schools are offering rapid training programs, in which holders of bachelor degrees in other fields can obtain a bachelor's degree in nursing in approximately one year, which may help increase the number of people joining the nursing profession.

Well...

where I live there are 3 nursing schools presently. 1 4-year BSN program, 1 ADN program, and 1 diploma program. Both the ADN and the diploma program have more clinical hours in their program than the BSN program does.

I'm sure this isn't the case everywhere, but here, I've heard from a lot of people in the healthcare industry that the majority of doctors around here would rather work with the graduates of the ADN or diploma programs because they have more hands-on experience.

Originally posted by AmyLiz

Well...

where I live there are 3 nursing schools presently. 1 4-year BSN program, 1 ADN program, and 1 diploma program. Both the ADN and the diploma program have more clinical hours in their program than the BSN program does.

I'm sure this isn't the case everywhere, but here, I've heard from a lot of people in the healthcare industry that the majority of doctors around here would rather work with the graduates of the ADN or diploma programs because they have more hands-on experience.

Interesting, because in my BSN program we graduated with over 2500 hours of clinical experience....

Specializes in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg.

"BSN vs. ASN has been an ongoing debate for over 20 years, no answers in sight"

I agree. Let's not rehash this BS yet one more time here, and just contribute to the "divide and conquer" strategy that management customarily uses to keep us from taking any power.

Any facility that would have lots of BSNs instead of ADNs, probably has other significant differences from a facililty that does not.

These studies show little or nothing, except they always end (surprise!) with the notation that "further studies (and further FUNDING for those studies) are needed."

Hmmmm.

Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.

Thx sjoe for reminding everyone not to make this a war. This is about us as a group and we should band together on it and truly investigate it. I think pama's post was very interesting. It really makes me want to see the original study in question. There is something very political to this whole thing that I find very interesting.. I think most of us realize that adn/ bsn has nothing to do with patient mortality, but someone is thinking they will profit from the upgrade of nurses, and is using this platform to push for it.

Specializes in ER - trauma/cardiac/burns. IV start spec.

I have found that more often than not BSN's have no clue how to nurse. They know how to "manage". Over the last 10 years I had the pleasure of precepting new grads to the ER. I had a far easier time with ASN's. My last BSN had been on orientation for 3 months. Makes one worry

Originally posted by Dragonnurse1

I have found that more often than not BSN's have no clue how to nurse. They know how to "manage". Over the last 10 years I had the pleasure of precepting new grads to the ER. I had a far easier time with ASN's. My last BSN had been on orientation for 3 months. Makes one worry

Talk about trying to start a war. This statement is very rude. I have seen both BSN and ADN students who have trouble making the transition to the bedside from school. But to say more often BSN's have not clue, well that's very inflammatory.

Coug RN;

Sorry you feel offended, but I must agree with Dragonnurse, most BSN nurses do not know how or where to begin. I have had to precept many BSN's. Most could not give an injection other than IM, no Iv or foley experience, no dressing change or drain experience. Great on doing intake interview, care plan, goal setting and discharge teaching. It may just be this area, but this has been my experience.

Oh God... i don't see why ADNs get mad when their care is called into question as a group, but then do the same thing to BSN nurses... I don't know what causes this need to always point out that you're better than someone else....

On this thread we talk about a "skewed" study and question the integrity of the methology and if it can be generalized and then make such anecdotal statements as "most BSNs. . . . "

How many of us as consumers of research really know how to determine if a study is valid and can be generalized in the first place? I don't think they teach that in ADN programs at all and very very briefly in BSN programs.

Our bases for arguments in this age-ol debate (which does need to be revived an RESOLVED), in my opinion, miss the mark as to why it should be debated and an issue in the first place. Focusing on which program produces the "better" clinical nurses probably cannot be proved and probably is no different as far as clinical skills.

The issue is this for the advancement of nursig. Professions require advaned education. Other healthcare professions have definite paths of education that are clearly defined before one can enter the profession. Other healthcare professions are increasing their entry level education requirements as the body of knowledge in health sciences increases. Nursing is not. This is a major set back for us as we are struggling to gain more autonomy and professional respect and recogniton. As someone on this BB said before.

Americans equate professionalism with higher education. Our healthcare peers equate professionalism with higher education. Nursing does not seem to get it and we wonder why we are treated with disrespect.

Let's get our heads out of the sand and stop the bickering and finger pointing. If we want to be treated like professionals then we must display the behaviors associated with such and have the educational requiremnts that are in line with definition of "professional." No offense to anyone, but how can you expect to gain respect for your clinical expertise when you have nurses with 1, 2, 3 years of education, or even 4 for that matter sittng at the table with other disciplines that require masters and doctoral degrees to even enter the field?

Well said, ainz.

And to barefootlady, I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with new BSN nurses. I'm in the first semester of my program, and we've already learned to do dressing changes, drain care, and we start on IM, SC, IVs during our next unit that starts next week. We put in a lot of lab time before they let us "loose" in the hospitals and work on real patients.

I think nursing needs to get off this ridiculous subject. Most of us that do floor nursing knows you do not need a BSN to give expert care. Here in Ohio a good many of us have not found a sound reason to return to college for a BSN. That is another $5,000 or more that I am going to put out just to add to my humanities list. Here In our city BSN nurses do not make a penny more for it. At least not if you work the floor. The only way here that it perhaps benifits you is that more doors are open to non floor nursing. A very wise Science professor once told our class " If you take nothing else away from this class, In this world today I have found if something does not make sence or add up ,it is usually got a dollar and cense attached to it.

Specializes in ICU, psych, corrections.

I think that it varies. I'm sure there are some BSN programs that are better than ADN programs and vice versa. I can only speak for myself. If I had the time, or I had not gotten into my ADN program I'm in now, I would have gone onto the university and received my BSN. The BSN program at our university was much less competitive, accepted more students, and was just plain easier to get into. But luckily, I got into the one at my local community college. I feel like so far, I have gotten an excellent education (regarding my prerequisites). We were the only school to use human cadavers in our anatomy labs (where we got to do the cutting; it was not done for us) and our professors all worked together to prepare us for the nursing program. But I also know that the reputation for the BSN program here is good as well. The only difference between the BSN and the ADN here in my area is you take a few more general education classes. That is the only difference. The nursing classes are the same time frame and the ADN program actually offers more clinical hours. But I don't think makes someone less of a nurse. I think that some people are cut out to be nurses and would flourish no matter which program they went through. I also know that some people will never really "get the hang" of nursing and it wouldn't matter if they went to a top nursing school. I think that as long as you have those two letters behind your name, practice compassion, respect your patients, and are diligent and responsible in your nursing, it doesn't matter where you got your education. Nurses should respect one another seeing as how it's tough no matter whether you are a BSN or an RN....we are all going to struggle with the same issues in the world of nursing.

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