Need a BSN for what again?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? I've heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
1. Because research has shown better outcomes are associated with BSN+ degree RNs.

2. Because of the nursing surpless, employers are afforded the ability to be picky about who they hire and have started to prefer it.

3. Because of Magnet status. See 1 and 2.

Why do you all of a sudden bring it up?

In addition to all of these points, what happened to wanting to pursue higher education for self improvement? Why are nurses not aspiring to learn more and better prepare themselves? I am one of those who believes it is time to make the BSN the entry point to becoming an RN. Many people consider nursing a vocation type of employment. Most types of healthcare fields require a Bachelor's degree and it is time that we narrow down how to become an RN. Our field looks disorganized when there are still diploma programs, associate's degrees, and the BSN. Just my humble opinion so feel free to disagree.

Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

Ok... a few posts have been deleted for various reasons can we please keep to topic

As a profession we need the BSN because we need uniform educational standards for the entry into the profession. Other professions have a standard level of education such as physicians, all physicians have a doctorate.

The reason why the standard should be the bachelor's degree is simple, that is widely considered a base level of education for most professions. I am sure there are reasons and there is a whole history of the educational system but that is what it is.

The people driving this are not administrators, Magnet, or anything like that. It is professional nursing organizations such as ANA, AACN, NCSBN that are pushing for the change, administrators and Magnet are just responding to those efforts.

I do not think anyone should have to go back to get their BSN but I do think the minimal level of education for entry into the profession should be the BSN for future new graduates.

I noticed that people are not crying about the near extinction of the diploma nurse.

I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? Ive heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

I have an ASN and probably won't continue beyond that. It drives me a little nutty when people feel the need to minimize the education of their peers, though.

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.

BSN degree requirements exist partially due to economic conditions and partly because of credential inflation.

Employment markets in some geographic regions have too many nurses vying for a limited number of nursing jobs, so a BSN degree requirement substantially reduces the number of inbound employment applications. Be cognizant that most hospitals didn't demand BSNs when a true nursing shortage actually existed. In my honest opinion, the BSN degree serves as an unofficial weed-out mechanism.

The BSN degree requirement also works as a screening tool for healthcare employers. The ability to earn a bachelor's degree points to an applicant's ability to complete college courses with a certain difficulty level. A baccalaureate degree also indicates perseverance and the inclination to finish whatever is started since the applicant followed through over 4+ years to complete a credential.

Now here's the controversial part...I believe the BSN requirement is an unofficial class-based sorting tool. A university degree is a traditional marker of middle class status. Only 30 percent of American adults have earned any type of bachelor's degree. While many people are oblivious, prestige is a major component of America's higher educational system.

Universities (places where BSN degrees are conferred) are placed on top of the prestige hierarchy based on public perception. Meanwhile, community colleges, trade schools and technical colleges (places where ASNs, nursing diplomas and career certificates are conferred) are situated toward the bottom of the prestige pyramid due to lack of exclusivity.

Before anyone gets testy over my post, I started off as an LVN with a trade school diploma before earning an ASN degree. I earned my BSN degree online.

I noticed that people are not crying about the near extinction of the diploma nurse.

Plenty of us are; we just know enough to keep quiet about it. I'm an original diploma grad who later completed a BSN and a graduate degree and has taught in ADN and BSN programs, and I firmly believe that the diploma school model provides the best generalist nursing education for entry into practice. IMO, we've "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" in nursing education.

As to you comment about most professions having the baccalaureate as the "base level of education" -- not true. Most recognized professions require a graduate degree (at least a Master's) as the minimum level of educational preparation to enter practice.

These conversations remind me of what has gone on recently for physical therapists. The entry level degree was increased from a Bachelor's to a Master's Degree. And more recently, the requirement is a Doctorate. However, all practicing PTs were grandfathered in. Physical therapists are not being sent back to school en masse to get Doctorate level education; it is simply the new requirement going forward.

Nursing would probably be more supportive of education changes if experienced, practicing RNs could be grandfathered in a similar manner to PTs.

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

Nursing would probably be more supportive of education changes if experienced, practicing RNs could be grandfathered in a similar manner to PTs.

(To the best of my knowledge)

PTs decided to make the change prior to there being evidence that a higher degree improved outcomes, and more specifically, increasing the education level of those already in practice improving outcomes. They were proactive. They were also gunning for independent practice and increasing the degree helps that.

Nursing couldn't do it back in 1965 and now we are being reactive.

There is plenty of evidence to support that BSN prepared nurses correlate with lower patient mortality rates. To address the issue of scope of practice, the universal belief and truth is that ADNs nurses are trained to know how to perform basic nursing skills and competencies. However, BSN prepared nurses have had an additional two years of training in fully understanding why these skills and competencies are necessary. They have had the opportunity to further develop their own critical thinking and problem solving; rather than simply knowing that if assessment reveals A, then respond with intervention B. BSN prepared nurses are forcibly familiarized with evidence-based practice, both in conducting research and in constantly reading ever-changing EBP.

This is in no way to knock down ADN nurses, because they are equally valuable to the field. It is simply comparing/contrasting level of preparedness. Many hospitals now are shifting entry-level positions to preferring or requiring BSN prepared nurses more to protect their assets, both financially and as it concerns their patients.

Additionally, the role of the RN, regardless of education, never stops after the assessment. You know it is the nurse, who is with the patient the other 23 hours and 45 minutes the doctor is not in the room, who better understands the patients situation as it affects them and their family. Yes, we are the advocate, but sometimes doctors look out for their bottom line, prescribe a medication/treatment the patient cant tolerate or cannot afford. It is the role of the nurse to simply suggest the physician prescribe a med or treatment more tolerable or affordable first. Then it falls to the physician, within his/her scope of practice, to determine if that is appropriate. If it is documented that the RN assessed, contacted the physician, made a solid well-informed recommendation, and the doctor did not choose to follow it, the nurse can always go to the charge or nurse manager and dispute the order for safety. IF you follow the appropriate channels, you should never feel like your practice is in jeopardy because, God forbid, a physician got something wrong.

Finally, it is not that ADN nurses are no longer fit for nursing. An ADN nurse with years of experience is still more valuable than a new grad BSN nurse. As another reader mentioned, it is also a Magnet requirement that a percentage of RNs have their BSN &/or be certified in a specialty. BSNs are not BS; they are certainly a challenge. As a truly "ModernRN", why not continue to challenge yourself, both for personal/professional development but also for your patients? Also, many hospitals will financially support continued education. Talk to other nurses, both ADN and BSN or MSN nurses and consider what type of education/training they received. Maybe you'll find you still have the same beliefs, or it will encourage you to further your education. If nursing has taught us all anything, it's that the learning never stops, so why not come out with another degree? (Also, BSNs get paid more than ADNs if money is your primary concern).

Specializes in Cardiac (adult), CC, Peds, MH/Substance.

Well, while ANA, AACN, and NCSBN are pushing it, Magnet is the mechanism. ANA/AACN have been pushing it for a very long time, with no major traction until Magnet status. So, while I agree that the organizations are pushing it, Magnet Status is the vehicle being used to push, and it's gaining a lot of traction. ANA/AACN created and are pushing the credential, but the credential is (appears to be) what hospitals want, and thus are making hiring decisions based on. It's kind of like how ANA's been saying for 30 years that nurse practitioners should have a DNP. They say a lot of things that haven't happened yet. But the push for BSNs for nurses IS happening in hospitals, and it's happening now. Not because the ANA said something, however, but because the ANA and ANCC created a credential that rewards hospitals for BSNs and MSNs. Magnet is not responding to the effort. It is the (very well-played) effort.

What's a diploma nurse? Just kidding.

As a profession we need the BSN because we need uniform educational standards for the entry into the profession. Other professions have a standard level of education such as physicians, all physicians have a doctorate.

The reason why the standard should be the bachelor's degree is simple, that is widely considered a base level of education for most professions. I am sure there are reasons and there is a whole history of the educational system but that is what it is.

The people driving this are not administrators, Magnet, or anything like that. It is professional nursing organizations such as ANA, AACN, NCSBN that are pushing for the change, administrators and Magnet are just responding to those efforts.

I do not think anyone should have to go back to get their BSN but I do think the minimal level of education for entry into the profession should be the BSN for future new graduates.

I noticed that people are not crying about the near extinction of the diploma nurse.

Specializes in Cardiac (adult), CC, Peds, MH/Substance.

I believe you made a typo, and meant to type, "the other 23 hours and 56 minutes."

Additionally, the role of the RN, regardless of education, never stops after the assessment. You know it is the nurse, who is with the patient the other 23 hours and 45 minutes the doctor is not in the room, who better understands the patients situation as it affects them and their family.

Most of the nurses in my BSN program have no desire to work bedside after they get their BSN. I have an associates and I work away from the bedside already ,so I have no desire to go to the bedside. I wonder who will desire to work at the bedside not many nurse with a LPN,ASN,or BSN...so after this BSN push I do think this ideology will taper off because a majority of nurses do not want to work the bedside no matter the educational level

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