Need a BSN for what again?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? I've heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

It seems like the goal posts keep moving.

Yes, they do. And our choices are to keep up with them, or to get left behind.

Specializes in ER.

I personally advocate for a ADN/BSN hybrid which is closer to what some Europeans consider to be a bachelors. I love when people started referencing an article that used European countries that compared bachelor degrees to diploma nurses without learning what their equivalent of a bachelors degree really contains.

It is more of a 3 year degree with a focus on nursing and science classes and less of the fluff. Yes, bachelor degrees with their general education credits help justify thousands of jobs since in university, a lot of students take classes that are not related to their career to be "well rounded."

I personally advocate for a ADN/BSN hybrid which is closer to what some Europeans consider to be a bachelors. I love when people started referencing an article that used European countries that compared bachelor degrees to diploma nurses without learning what their equivalent of a bachelors degree really contains.

It is more of a 3 year degree with a focus on nursing and science classes and less of the fluff. Yes, bachelor degrees with their general education credits help justify thousands of jobs since in university, a lot of students take classes that are not related to their career to be "well rounded."

A four year university is not intended to be vocational school. The purpose is not purely to prepare one to start a given career. It IS intended to give the student a diverse education so that they come out having learned things that can help them with life in general, or simply to satisfy a general curiosity about our world, rather than preparing them specifically for a given career. Just because a class isn't directly applicable to a career doesn't mean it's "fluff." There are benefits to learning about our planet and its inhabitants that can't be measured in terms of how it directly affects a day at work. But it's not for everyone, which is why it's good that the ADN RN program is available for those who aren't interested in learning anything which doesn't specifically apply to the job of a RN, who don't have the funds to pay for 4 or more years, or who must begin working sooner rather than later.

I love to learn new things. I wish I could get several more degrees. I'd like to know a lot more about the business world, about history, about philosophy, about physics, and architecture. There's nothing wrong with learning just for learning's sake. A Bachelor's degree provides a broad education with benefits that may or may not be tangible. Whether or not a BSN provides the student with advantages over the ADN is specific to the actual person, as well as their career goals and geographical region.

Specializes in Behavioral Health.
I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? Ive heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

You could have had a BSN with as much effort as you put into your post.....

Specializes in PeriOp, ICU, PICU, NICU.

From the research gathered I wonder how many BSN's contributing to the "safer patient outcomes percentage", were Diploma or ASN degree nurses who after many moons went back for their BSN?

Specializes in ER.

I agree with a previous poster who posted that in some ways, the BSN requirement is part of a social issue. I also think it is a money saving method.

The reason why I think it is partially a class move is that it weeds people out. A lot of people who get an ADN are 2nd degree applicants, older students, and students who have other commitments like small children. Those who initially graduate with a BSN usually are under 30. This is not always the case but I cannot prove my statements.

Another concern is that it potentially saves money for the hospital. If they hire mostly BSN applicants, then they do not need to pay for the BSN student to go back to school. My company just changed their tuition reimbursement to basically you can't be eligible for loans. It sucks.

I also think that this is an attempt to move the profession forward too. I do think within my lifetime, we will see it become BSN-entry only. However, I do think that the hybrid programs will exist where people will complete their clinicals through an ADN school and take an extra year of classes an university.

I think the best prepared nurses to work the floor were the diploma nurses.

I also support a change in how Americans attend school. I think there needs to be an elimination of the general education credits. It "makes us well rounded" fluff needs to stop. Does dance history make me a better person? Did it help contribute to my learning? No. I should not have had to shell out around 300 bucks for forced "diversity" and additional education not associated with my degree. I have other hobbies and interests like learning a new musical instrument so I do not need to be forced to be a well-rounded student.

I have compared education and a lot of direct-entry BSN programs have little differences in the core content than my associate degree program. The main differences were the number of general education credits. Even the number of clinical hours differs slightly and it ended up with my associate program having more clinical hours than the local BSN programs. Main difference is the cost of the BSN compared to my ADN.

With all of my credit units together, I have earned a Master's Degree. Yes, it was a waste of money. However, I've noticed that I reasoned quite different than those people haven't completed a 60 credit unit in general education. The ADN-RN's general ed isn't that much.

FYI, I'm not insulting you. Everyone is capable of learning/improving unless the person has a clinical cognitive function.

Let's be honest, the schools want to stay open. We could earn RN's degree without those general educations. I'm sure that the clinical instructors and theories' can teach nurse students in their garage to be an excellent healthcare providers.

Yes, I support the idea of getting into a higher education. That's because it helps the nurse professions to be the best providers on Earth. Do you know the history of nurses? Anyway, there are many people deny that they don't need junk classes. I used to protest too. Later in life, I realized how it had changed me. I learned to discover myself. I don't need to be rounded, but everything else.

I also think that this is an attempt to move the profession forward too. I do think within my lifetime, we will see it become BSN-entry only.

That's what a lot of nurses were saying 40 years ago, and we're no closer to that happening now than we were then (in terms of licensure, that is -- clearly a lot of employers are showing a preference for BSN-prepared nurses, at least for the time being).

I also support a change in how Americans attend school. I think there needs to be an elimination of the general education credits. It "makes us well rounded" fluff needs to stop. Does dance history make me a better person? Did it help contribute to my learning? No. I should not have had to shell out around 300 bucks for forced "diversity" and additional education not associated with my degree. I have other hobbies and interests like learning a new musical instrument so I do not need to be forced to be a well-rounded student.

I have compared education and a lot of direct-entry BSN programs have little differences in the core content than my associate degree program. The main differences were the number of general education credits. Even the number of clinical hours differs slightly and it ended up with my associate program having more clinical hours than the local BSN programs. Main difference is the cost of the BSN compared to my ADN.

So, you're speaking positively above about the push for BSN education of nurses "moving the profession forward," but now you're arguing in favor of returning nursing back to basic technical-vocational training? The "fluff," as so many nurses disparagingly refer to general education requirements in BSN programs, is the difference between a tech-voc certificate in some kind of technical skill and a baccalaureate degree. "Dance history" does make you "a better person" and "contribute to (your) learning" -- unless you've decided up front that it's not going to, and choose to not take advantage of the opportunity. Maybe you don't need to be "forced to be a well-rounded student" because you have other interests, but that is a basic expectation of higher education, as opposed to, say, learning welding or plumbing.

So, you're speaking positively above about the push for BSN education of nurses "moving the profession forward," but now you're arguing in favor of returning nursing back to basic technical-vocational training? The "fluff," as so many nurses disparagingly refer to general education requirements in BSN programs, is the difference between a tech-voc certificate in some kind of technical skill and a baccalaureate degree. "Dance history" does make you "a better person" and "contribute to (your) learning" -- unless you've decided up front that it's not going to, and choose to not take advantage of the opportunity. Maybe you don't need to be "forced to be a well-rounded student" because you have other interests, but that is a basic expectation of higher education, as opposed to, say, learning welding or plumbing.

Well said!

Many places are starting to go back to the diploma type schools. Hospitals are instituting these schools in their hospitals. They are finding that today's ASN and BSN nurses are woefully unprepared to be a nurse. Due to insurance and lawsuits, clinicals are a joke. There is no hands on experience learned in the clinical setting.

I will say that it's a load of crap that BSN nurses have higher critical thinking skills. The idea that BSN nurses have better outcomes is BS as well. I've seen it first hand. A group of new grad nurses were hired on my unit. Some ASN, some BSN. All varying ages. The ASN nurses blew the BSN new grads out if the water. They came off orientation first, think better, and have generally caught on to the job better. A couple of the BSN nurses are really struggling. I think it had more to do with how easily each individual could learn how to critically think. That is a skill. Not everybody can master every skill.

I've also heard from other units that the same thing is going on.

I think furthering your education is wonderful. It's always great to expand your mind and learn. But, it doesn't make the nurse.

The OP is a little misguided in thinking the BSN gives someone a greater scope of practice. It comes down to a bunch of liberal arts credits. If you want the letters and want to move away from bedside,it's a good idea to have.

I have my BSN. I bridged after my ASN. I don't regret it, but it didn't change the way I practice.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Many places are starting to go back to the diploma type schools. Hospitals are instituting these schools in their hospitals.

Say what now? Source please.

Many places are starting to go back to the diploma type schools. Hospitals are instituting these schools in their hospitals.

I would also like to know the source for this assertion. It certainly is not true in my area.

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