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Need a BSN for what again?

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I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? I've heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

Edited by Joe V

Welcome to allnurses. There are a number of studies that have shown a correlation between higher numbers of BSN prepared nursing staff and lower mortality rates, and there are plenty of criticisms of those studies. The bottom line is that it's becoming a requirement because employers can require it. Since the economy tanked, employment is a buyer's (employers') market, and, with the abundance of RNs looking for jobs, they can be as picky and choosy as they like. There are still plenty of places in the US that employ ADN-prepared RNs, but there are also many parts of the country in which it's extremely difficult to find employment without a BSN. People are free to make their own choices about continuing their education, but it may mean having to relocate.

I don't think one has to be a "diva" to feel that there is a lot more to nursing practice than providing assessment info to the physician and carrying out physician orders. That is a quite limited view of nursing, and I'm surprised that someone within nursing is actually proposing that. Or are you intentionally being provocative?

Your post supports the need for additional education on the scope of today's nursing except I know ADNs have a better understanding than you are demonstrating.

I am a nurse and chose to go to nursing school for my career. I have no desire to be a physician otherwise I would have gone to med school. I agree that going above and beyond is nice and feels great to be able to provide quality nursing care. But what about those nurses who stress that their license is gonna be taken away and or be disciplined at work over issues that the physician is dropping the ball on? Its not fair as this can cause increased nursing anxiety which can lower the nurses threshold to stress and decrease the ability to provide quality nursing care and may even be a big cause of nursing burnout. Why is no one supporting boundaries between the professions?

A BSN does not and was never intended to correlate with the scope of a physician. Your premise is non sensical. This type of illogic is what generates the monkey comments and is detrimental to our reputation, so no I'm not taking a hike.

BostonFNP, APRN

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine. Has 10 years experience.

So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden?

1. Because research has shown better outcomes are associated with BSN+ degree RNs.

2. Because of the nursing surpless, employers are afforded the ability to be picky about who they hire and have started to prefer it.

3. Because of Magnet status. See 1 and 2.

Why do you all of a sudden bring it up?

NotYourMamasRN

Specializes in Float Pool - A Little Bit of Everything. Has 6 years experience.

I wanted to reply but I think I might be here typing for a few hours if I do, so I am just going to leave it at, "What everyone else said".

Depending on where you live and work, it may not be necessary to get your BSN. In other places, no one will force you to do it, but that leaves you with nothing to do but complain about it to that brick wall, while the "divas" get all the plumb jobs.

Edited by Horseshoe

datalore

Specializes in Cardiac/Tele.

OP states BSN is BS, without offering any specific argument as to why BSN is BS. The ideas about what the scope of nursing is or isn't is tangential to why a BSN is or isn't necessary. Think about what is actually included in BSN coursework and whether that is relevant to the scope and practice of nursing, then you'll have my listening ear.

Julius Seizure

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.

This post certainly traveled far. We started with "why get a BSN?" and ended with "Nurses shouldn't have to make sure that MDs write for DVT prophylaxis."

Both are worthwhile topics to discuss, maybe, but I'm not sure they fit into the same post.

The nursing process actually includes "diagnosis" and "intervention." No, you do not have to prescribe the medication or diagnose the actual illness. But tell me, if you walk into the room and see the patient struggling to breathe, are you not going to elevate the head of the bed? That is a nursing diagnosis and intervention. No order required (in most cases). The profession is evolving. I don't think any ADN should feel less about themselves because they didn't get the BSN. You don't have to get it if you don't want to, just know that you may not have the advantage when applying to Magnet designated health centers.

Been there,done that, ASN, RN

Has 33 years experience.

Yeah well, tell all that to the powers that be. The fact is, a BSN is now required for entry level positions in many facilities.

Why? Because they can. They have many nurses applying for a position, they will go for the nurse with the highest degree.

Physicians have nothing to do with this process.

P.S. I have an associate's degree. I make a boatload of money with it.

Palliative Care, DNP

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

1. Because research has shown better outcomes are associated with BSN+ degree RNs.

2. Because of the nursing surpless, employers are afforded the ability to be picky about who they hire and have started to prefer it.

3. Because of Magnet status. See 1 and 2.

Why do you all of a sudden bring it up?

In addition to all of these points, what happened to wanting to pursue higher education for self improvement? Why are nurses not aspiring to learn more and better prepare themselves? I am one of those who believes it is time to make the BSN the entry point to becoming an RN. Many people consider nursing a vocation type of employment. Most types of healthcare fields require a Bachelor's degree and it is time that we narrow down how to become an RN. Our field looks disorganized when there are still diploma programs, associate's degrees, and the BSN. Just my humble opinion so feel free to disagree.

Edited by Palliative Care, DNP
Additional thoughts

Silverdragon102, BSN

Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC. Has 33 years experience.

Ok... a few posts have been deleted for various reasons can we please keep to topic

Asystole RN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Vascular Access, Infusion Therapy.

As a profession we need the BSN because we need uniform educational standards for the entry into the profession. Other professions have a standard level of education such as physicians, all physicians have a doctorate.

The reason why the standard should be the bachelor's degree is simple, that is widely considered a base level of education for most professions. I am sure there are reasons and there is a whole history of the educational system but that is what it is.

The people driving this are not administrators, Magnet, or anything like that. It is professional nursing organizations such as ANA, AACN, NCSBN that are pushing for the change, administrators and Magnet are just responding to those efforts.

I do not think anyone should have to go back to get their BSN but I do think the minimal level of education for entry into the profession should be the BSN for future new graduates.

I noticed that people are not crying about the near extinction of the diploma nurse.

Sour Lemon

Has 9 years experience.

I am having trouble understanding why an ADN RN needs to go back to college for a BSN? Ive heard because there is a lower mortality rate with BSN nurses because they have higher critical thinking skills...Really? Basic RN's, wether ADN or BSN, were trained the necessary skills to perform at the bedside and to pass the NCLEX required to become and RN. So why all the critical thinking skills that are required all of a sudden? The duty of the bedside registered nurse is to assess and prove assessment feedback to the physician. He or she said physician is to analyze the data provided by the RN and give further direction from that point. There is no further obligation in the nursing process that states we must recommend to the physician what medication the patient needs to be prescribed as we have absolutely NO prescriptive authority OR obligation. We nurses are furthermore not obligated to formulate a diagnosis for the physician which would be beyond the scope of practice also. The scope of nursing actually ends with assessment and reporting to the ultimate responsible authority. The nurse then is to carry out the specific orders provided by the physician. I can already hear you diva's saying, "but your the pt advocate", and yes we are but we have limitations. Once we hit our limitations it is the responsibility of the physician to do his or her job and stop trying to force everything on the nurses. Nurses are not here to take up the slack of the physician. The physicians need to become the professionals they claim to be and stop forgetting orders and hospitals stop forcing the nurses to catch the mistakes of a physician because the hospital can't get the physician to comply.

All in all, there seems to be a stretch of nursing to become the physicians...well where is the pay and title change? Every order that a nurse corrects should be noted and send to the medical board. If a nurse was to make mistakes it can be reported to the board...Physicians should be held accountable at the same level.

So my take on the BSN requirement is BS.

Anyone else know why we must have a BSN? Why is it that a ADN can no longer fit the position?

I have an ASN and probably won't continue beyond that. It drives me a little nutty when people feel the need to minimize the education of their peers, though.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych. Has 15 years experience.

BSN degree requirements exist partially due to economic conditions and partly because of credential inflation.

Employment markets in some geographic regions have too many nurses vying for a limited number of nursing jobs, so a BSN degree requirement substantially reduces the number of inbound employment applications. Be cognizant that most hospitals didn't demand BSNs when a true nursing shortage actually existed. In my honest opinion, the BSN degree serves as an unofficial weed-out mechanism.

The BSN degree requirement also works as a screening tool for healthcare employers. The ability to earn a bachelor's degree points to an applicant's ability to complete college courses with a certain difficulty level. A baccalaureate degree also indicates perseverance and the inclination to finish whatever is started since the applicant followed through over 4+ years to complete a credential.

Now here's the controversial part...I believe the BSN requirement is an unofficial class-based sorting tool. A university degree is a traditional marker of middle class status. Only 30 percent of American adults have earned any type of bachelor's degree. While many people are oblivious, prestige is a major component of America's higher educational system.

Universities (places where BSN degrees are conferred) are placed on top of the prestige hierarchy based on public perception. Meanwhile, community colleges, trade schools and technical colleges (places where ASNs, nursing diplomas and career certificates are conferred) are situated toward the bottom of the prestige pyramid due to lack of exclusivity.

Before anyone gets testy over my post, I started off as an LVN with a trade school diploma before earning an ASN degree. I earned my BSN degree online.

I noticed that people are not crying about the near extinction of the diploma nurse.

Plenty of us are; we just know enough to keep quiet about it. I'm an original diploma grad who later completed a BSN and a graduate degree and has taught in ADN and BSN programs, and I firmly believe that the diploma school model provides the best generalist nursing education for entry into practice. IMO, we've "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" in nursing education.

As to you comment about most professions having the baccalaureate as the "base level of education" -- not true. Most recognized professions require a graduate degree (at least a Master's) as the minimum level of educational preparation to enter practice.

Edited by elkpark