Math requirement for RNs?

Nurses General Nursing

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I have a question for both practicing RNs and students alike:

It's come to my attention recently that some nursing schools are on longer verifying that their students can do basic 4th grade math. By that I mean add, subtract, multiply, and divide without using a calculator. They assume that calculators will always be available and that therefore, nurses don't need to know how to do basic calculations anymore and don't have anything in their curriculum that requires students to do those things. In fact, they are aware that some of their students definitely can NOT do those basic calculations when they involve fractions and/or decimals. Also, the TEAS test now allows applicants to use calculators: so they are not testing those skills, either.

To me, that seems like a safety issue. There might come a time when a calculator is not available.

1. What do you all think?

2. Students ... are you competent adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing fractions and decimals?

3. Practicing nurses ... are there any times you need to use basic calculation in your work (without a calculator)? Can you give me some examples?

4. Is anybody verifying those skills in orientation anymore? (med tests without calculators, etc.)

Thanks,

llg

Specializes in Med-Tele; ED; ICU.

I recognize no benefit in forcing people to forego calculators, even for simple maths.

Having studied math all the way through engineering grad school, I'm as proficient as almost anybody and yet I still choose to use a calculator simply because of efficiency and accuracy.

It's difficult to envision a realistic scenario where a calculator is unavailable yet needed.

And cursive? A complete waste of academic energy. Any time that would be spent practicing cursive would be better spent practicing keyboarding and fundamental computer skills.

Not everybody is mathematically inclined. I feel like, as long as someone knows their strengths and weaknesses and uses the appropriate aids when necessary, there is not really any harm. Math and science were the subjects I excelled in, I can, 100% do a lot of math in my head. I can't think of a situation a calculator isn't available. Both of the units I worked on had one. Every computer known to man has one (may or may not be that convenient...but it's there). In the event those fail, I have a phone which is usually charged and I can check my math if absolutely necessary on there. If I'm in a situation where I can't use the computer to check my math, I don't think the policy about not having my phone on me or on matters that much. Even if I didn't have my phone, I work with people who ALWAYS have their phones (especially the surgeons I work with). Almost all the math I do is addition or subtraction (specifically of countable items).

If I were calculating something or checking what the order or pump say for accuracy on something with a small margin of error, I'm gonna check my math on the computer or calculator.

I think that the human user needs to know enough to double check what the system or machine may deem correct and know how to solve discrepancies.

Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.

So are they no longer doing Dosage Calculation in NS?? We had one every semester and had to get 100% on it. We had 2 tries to get 100% and if you didn't you were dismissed from the program. They said nurses needed to be able to calculate dosages and get it right 100% of the time, not 8/10 or 9/10 times. We were taught dimensional analysis as well in the course. We could use calculators as a lot of times in dosages you can have some pretty big number IE: Heparin unites for drips, mcg. and so on.

Although most of my career I have not had to bust out my math as things were already computed, there have been a handful of times I did in fact have to remember and use the things I learned. A lot of places I worked also required a pharm and dosage and calc test as part of the onboarding.

Someone mentioned code sheets, when I worked Pediatric Burn unit and step down we had an excel program code sheet and each admission we entered the kiddos weight and it calculated all the dosages based on weight and it was hung in every kids room where it was easy to see.

Specializes in Transitional Nursing.

I can do it without a calculator, yes. I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I didn't have access to one, though. They are on every computer and cell phone aside from the battery operated ones I always see hanging about.

I think its important to be able to do math without one, but I also think it's much more accurate to use one in addition to saving time.

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.

Someone mentioned code sheets, when I worked Pediatric Burn unit and step down we had an excel program code sheet and each admission we entered the kiddos weight and it calculated all the dosages based on weight and it was hung in every kids room where it was easy to see.

Yup thats how ours was at my first hospital - but then when I moved to a hospital that used Epic, it had weight-based code sheets already in there, just click and print :up: (and then of course, double check because we were all prudent nurses who used our calculator/computers AND our brains all at the same time).

Specializes in NICU, Infection Control.

There was a question on here a few weeks ago where someone was asking how to dilute a 250mg vial of Ampicillin in order to get 260 mg. In ~5 or 6 answers, no one said the obvious: You can't get 260mg out of a 250 mg vial.

You have got to be able to SEE stuff like that. Not sure it can always be taught.

Re: Cursive. It's possible that cursive helps children w/dyslexia 'connect the dots'. There is some thinking that it helps brain development. The Benefits of Cursive Go Beyond Writing - NYTimes.com

jmo, ok?

RNs unable to perform 5th grade math calculations? How can anyone support that? Entry level should be raised and standardized.

I don't know what schools are allowing this? Minimum for the school I hope to attend is MAT142, which is College-level mathematics and its applications to real-life problems: set theory, probability, statistics, finance, and geometry.

Specializes in retired LTC.

Re: Cursive. It's possible that cursive helps children w/dyslexia 'connect the dots'. There is some thinking that it helps brain development. The Benefits of Cursive Go Beyond Writing - NYTimes.com

jmo, ok?

Just to lighten up the conversation - it's becoming more & more difficult to find clocks that are NOT digital. And wristwatches that are without numbers (just the little lines)!!!

I read it somewhere where educators were commenting that kids today are having major problems telling time on NON-DIGITAL timepieces.

And I wonder what will happen to knowing how to do roman numerals. Like as in Super Bowl LII.

Specializes in ED, psych.

In my program, we needed 100% to pass each semester on dosage calculations. We did have access to a calculator, but had to show our work. We did NOT have a intro to math dosage class or anything; it was assumed that you knew basic math upon being accepted to nursing school.

In my hospital orientation, we needed to get 80% on med/dosage calculations (I believe it may be a statewide thing).

My unit has calculators, and I can carry my cell in my pocket if needed. I can do it in my head, however, with most things.

As for cursive ... that's still being taught in my children's schools. But I'm actually way more concerned about telling time, like another poster stated, or Roman numerals. My kids had the toughest time with telling time with an actual clock; we actually turned off everything digital for a while.

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.

I don't know what you mean here. A high school diploma or GED should be verification that you can do basic math.

I don't know of any nursing schools that don't require that.

On top of that you need college math and chemistry.

Why on earth would you need to test whether someone who knows algebra and chemistry, knows how to add and subtract?

That's like testing someone who knows how to read and write on the alphabet.

Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.
I'm trying to imagine a moment in time where a calculator wouldn't be available in this day and age. Beyond an EMP blast or maybe a war zone where the batteries on every cellphone of every person was dead at once.. I'm drawing a blank here.

Yep, war zone. We usually had electricity in Afghanistan, but it was iffy. I taught everyone med math for a reason!

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