Math requirement for RNs?

[llg]

I have a question for both practicing RNs and students alike:

It's come to my attention recently that some nursing schools are on longer verifying that their students can do basic 4th grade math. By that I mean add, subtract, multiply, and divide without using a calculator. They assume that calculators will always be available and that therefore, nurses don't need to know how to do basic calculations anymore and don't have anything in their curriculum that requires students to do those things. In fact, they are aware that some of their students definitely can NOT do those basic calculations when they involve fractions and/or decimals. Also, the TEAS test now allows applicants to use calculators: so they are not testing those skills, either.

To me, that seems like a safety issue. There might come a time when a calculator is not available.

1. What do you all think?

2. Students ... are you competent adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing fractions and decimals?

3. Practicing nurses ... are there any times you need to use basic calculation in your work (without a calculator)? Can you give me some examples?

4. Is anybody verifying those skills in orientation anymore? (med tests without calculators, etc.)

Thanks,

llg

[Serhilda, ADN, RN]

While most of us can do simple math without a calculator, I personally feel it's best to always have a calculator on hand to double check your work, no matter how confident you may be. We're only human and we're bound to make mistakes, especially if we're distracted or anxious.

[llg, PhD, RN]

If we get to a point where there literally is no ciphering machine available, then I seriously doubt that we have the drugs available either.

I disagree. All it would take is an extended power outage. Batteries would die and could not be re-charged.

[Flatline, BSN, RN]

I disagree. All it would take is an extended power outage. Batteries would die and could not be re-charged.

Unless they are solar calculators like most sold today that have a usable life of 20-30 years.

I agree though that nurses should know and understand simple math but not because the apocalypse will happen but because I think it is important to understand the basic concepts behind dosages.

[bgxyrnf, MSN, RN]

I disagree. All it would take is an extended power outage. Batteries would die and could not be re-charged.

No backup generators? Unlikely.

No solar powered calculators? Very unlikely.

[DoGoodThenGo]

No backup generators? Unlikely.

No solar powered calculators? Very unlikely.

And what happens when the backup generators go out?

Superstorm Sandy: Backup Generator Fails; NYU Medical Center Evacuated - ABC News

Lessons from Storm Sandy: When Hospital Generators Fail | TIME.com

What caused generators to fail at NYC hospitals? - CBS News

Life and death in a hospital ravaged by Hurricane Katrina

CNN.com - Katrina investigation focuses on more than one person - Dec 21, 2005

Memorial Medical Center and Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia

Of the many *heroes* of New York City when super storm Sandy hit were those nurses from NYU that *manually* bagged their tiny infant patients while going down several flights of stairs, into waiting ambulances and onto the hospitals those wee babies were transferred.

N.Y. hospital staff carry sick babies down 9 flights of stairs during evacuation - CNN.com

And they didn't lose anyone!

Photos: NYU's Sandy Babies Reunited For Birthday Bash As Parents Recall Scary Evacuation: Gothamist

Those are but two natural disasters; am not even going to touch upon a terrorist attack like 9/11/01.

I Was Working In a NYC Hospital on 9/11

There the question becomes not just whether or not your facility has electric power, but the sheer volume of patients outstrips supplies of pumps and other electronic equipment. Then you have nothing but your education, training and skills to fall back upon.

Long story short are such situations an every day occurrence? No, not very likely; however if and or when the stuff does hit the fan you are either prepared to step up to the plate or can run around like Prissy in GWTW crying "I don't know nuttin bout birthin no babies"..... *LOL*

[bagladyrn, RN]

I've twice been in hospitals when the backup generator did not kick in.

And you might want to read up on what it was like in hospitals during Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy.

(Looks like Do Good types faster than I do)

[DoGoodThenGo]

I've twice been in hospitals when the backup generator did not kick in.

And you might want to read up on what it was like in hospitals during Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy.

(Looks like Do Good types faster than I do)

Am officially a relic; went to high school when typing and stenography were almost mandated courses. *LOL* Thank God our HS had IBM Selectric typewriters; we had a manual at home and it killed my fingers.

Still over the years skill has come in handy. *LOL*

[maporcrn1]

What is 1/2 of 1/3? Mg/kg/min is different than mg/min. Nurses must recognize the difference, math is essential. Cardiac output vs Cardiac Index? Body weight vs BMI? 1 ml of a drug is different than 1 mg, depending on the vial. Correct dosage is the key, especially in the pediatric population.

[NurseYoungGuns]

Graduated LPN program in 2015. Starting RN program next week.

In the LPN program I had a wonderful instructor. Army vet, OR nurse. He required that we pass dosage calc tests by doing our work longhand with no calculator and score above a 90%; however, he drilled into our heads that in the real world if you get 90% of dosage right, you're still making errors 10% of the time. He told us that when he was in nursing school, his instructor required 100% in order to pass the dosage calc test. All longhand, no calculator.

I 100% agree with that 100% rule. Everyone makes med errors at some point in their career but as the last line of defense before administration, literally the least we can do as nurses is be competent in our calculations.

My job right now doesn't require a lot of dosage calc but when it does, I make sure to do the equation longhand and then I double check with a calculator. I think all nursing schools should be requiring routine dosage calc tests, and I'm glad that the LPN-RN program I am starting does.

Scott from CSI, if you ever read this, thanks for being a great instructor and role model! Thank you for holding us to high standards!